new mexico hunters

[nmplott]

anybody who hunts new mexico please read this
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s145 ... ml?cat=516

[pegleg]

so what are your feelings on cross country travel? I have seen alot of damage done to the land from it and am against it myself. I do see reasons for it. the problems arise when guys drive on steep or wet areas drive to fast or spin their tires. in some areas this leaves long lasting damage andrs follow the trail making it worse. quads seem to cause the most damage. and in the desert the sand rails really tear things up. but for retrieval of big game or disabled hunters or a few other reasons it is probably ok. problem is once one person is doing it they all want to. and the more roads you get the more road hunters you end up with.

[nmplott]

just wondering if this will be a slippery slope phenomenon

[Mike Leonard]

I am with Pegleg on this one. We see so much long term erosion caused be this cross country travel in our area. High desert is a very delicate enviroment and surface disturbance is not quickly erases with new growth of vegitation and such. Even very small runs scar the landscape for years. There is a place for the use of such cross country machines but it is definatly not in our National Forests. BLM land needs to be monitored closer as well. They will give a person working out there a stiff fine if he makes a rut in the muddy road more than 6" deep but turn their head when somebody just tears up the side of a kill with an ATV for no real reason other than seeing if they can get to the top. They are not making any more land you know?

[nmplott]

I am 100% on land conservation and believe that we should use more of our fine equine pals to access the public lands we have. I am just hoping that this is not a way to initiate the removal of hunting priviledges by making it harder one new ordinance at a time.

[Ike]

Around here there were complaints about horses in the high country shittin on the trails by the nature hikers. I don't know whether it was the smell or stepping in or around it that bothered the naturalists. We even had one guy on our RAC years ago who represented the Environmental side of the public who owned pack goats. For what ever reasons, that guy seemed to think goats were pure and horses were not. That man was against our cougar management and even complained that we "harass fish on a year round bases." Yes, he was even complaining about catch and release trout fisherman.......

This guy lived up near the base of the mountain, a doctor and naturalist as well. Well, one night a damn lion killed those two goats and his attitude changed on lion management....roflmao. Bottom line is what one person sees as pure another might not!

ike

[Big Mike]

This is part of the same travel plan stuff somebody posted in about in Oregan or Wash. The Forest service is doing a Nation wide travel plans on all their land, mainly to address the ATV issues and to get all the forset on the same page. In sat in on some of the meeting in the Lincoln about it. What they did is look at roads that didnt serve much purpose and looked a closing them. The forest service actually wanted to keep more roads open than I thought they should. This didnt affect any of the main FS roads that are already in place, just those roads that would go half mile and stop that were created by ATV and such.

It also looks into making some designated camp grounds(which i dont like) and changing the distance that can be driven off a road to camp. They mainly wanted designated campgrounds in places that have a history of problems such as driving off road to establish camps.

One of the biggest changes would be no off road retrieval of downed game. Its already this way in the lincoln and isnt a big deal

If you have the opportunity put your 2 cents to your forest. In all the changes didnt seem to alarming to me, but change is a coming in the next few years

[Ike]

One of the biggest changes would be no off road retrieval of downed game. Its already this way in the lincoln and isnt a big deal

For a guide handling elk and other large game animals alone is a big deal when laws mandate that game be retrieved from the field. One time use by an ATV does not scar the land unless that ground is soaked with rain, and I find laws against one time use for game removal discriminatory. In Utah, we permit one time use of large equipment for seismic exploration to find and develop oil and gas across the country. This activity is more damaging to surface vegetation than an ATV even under a one time use deal. So what the Forest Service and BLM is saying is it's OK for one time use to find and produce oil but not for one time use by a hunter/guide. I suppose state laws like "right to egress and recover minerals" make it ok but saving meat doesn't..........

ike

[Big Mike]

Im kinda of torn on the game retrieval. Ive seen one time use scar the land for a year. On the other hand I much rather see someone pack there entire elk out with an ATV than leave portions because they werent ready for the work it takes to pack one out on there back. I see both sides of it. But I think its coming anyways

[Tom White]

I"m not one to drive off roads , but I hate to see roads closed that I"ve drove my entire life. And I don"t like being told where I can and can"t camp. Every time a new law or reg. is passed A FREEDOM IS LOST.

[sourdough]

I went to Idaho a few years back to buck hunt and they had road restriction for ATV travel. What it boiled down to was a person could use their ATV to retrieve their animal but were unable to just road hunt or go cross country. Well that was a joke. I walked to the top of one of the mountains there, at the top was a monument that had a can in it for those that made it, in that can was a log book. To make a long story longer it took me the better part of a day to make it to the top of that mountain and when I got to that monument here was an ATV trail right to it, what a joke, every trail was being used by ATV users regardless of the rules. Now I am not saying that roads and trial should be closed but I was really disenfranchised with the lack of enforcement. These states can make all the rules in the world but if they don’t have the manpower to enforce them, people will continue to do as they want. It’s getting worse, people don’t care anymore, everywhere you go they don’t pick up their trash, they go beyond signs it won’t be long before we can’t go anywhere.

sourdough

[Ike]

Twenty or thirty years ago I supported road closures and lots of them, but that was when I hunted big game and did not run hounds. The first thing a man learns while hunting dogs is he needs all the access he can get to retrieve those hounds, and so I'm therefore a big supporter of roads these days. Even if a guy rides a horse in these times he'd be fenced out in most if not any place he hunts around here.........

ike

[Conejos]

Here in Northern Nm we have seen alot of road closings on the Carson national forest. The only problem I have had is you get your horses or mules all geared up and go into these closed off areas only to find the roads still full of four wheelers and toyota trucks. The state of New Mexico shouldn't be making any more laws that they don't intend to enforce.

[Big Mike]

Good points on the lack of Law Enforcement. Remember these changes are at the Fedreral level and State officer can't enforce Federal laws. Federal law superceeds state law but if the FS doesnt enforce them might not add up to much changes

[Cowboyvon]

I don't mind them closing some roads.. I'll admit that is mostly for selfish reasons. I just don't like ATV's or UTV's.. and I own a UTV and use it from time to time in some places but for the most part where I hunt, other than on some private ranches, its mules or horses only. From what I can tell is that where there are roads everywhere that's where most everyone goes and I like to have my solitude.

I can see where this could be the first step in totally controlling what we do in the woods from where we can ride our horses and where we can camp and what we can do.. And I damm sure don't like loosing any of my freedom.