old blood

[Coyote]

You hear alot of talk about dogs being bred back to certain strains or hunters like the Goswicks, Jack Butler, the Lee brothers, Ben Lilly, Terrell Shelley and so on. How much of those bloodlines are still around?

[Mike Leonard]

You know I can't accuratly say for most of the strains however Terrell Shelly is still actively breeding and hunting hounds out of the orginal Shelly strain and that according to their ranch records go back directly to the hounds of Ben Lilly while he was living and hunting on their ranch and the GOS Ranch. How many outcrosses I do not know.

Goswick Strain is still fairly active thru professional hunters of the bare ground variety. I was lucky enough to meet a relation of the Goswick's who had hunted with the old strain for many years and kept many of the old dogs after Giles passed on. Dogs I obtained from this man became the backbone of my old strain hounds although I did cross them on hounds from Provincial B.C. Hunter Dan Lay. The Layser hounds traced back to the southwest strains of Lee and Goswick in the 1930's.

The Butler , strain as well as off shoots such as Holt, Cox, Emmitand Blackburn , and later Meacham and Allen and others are still entwined in many of the best southern Utah bare ground dogs. Others on this forum can certainly give much more illumination on these dogs.



Nothing can last forever it it's pure state of breeding without degeneration and so outcrosses have most certainly been made. The tremendous records and successes the hunters who have these dogs still enjoy in the harshest of conditions is a true testement to the orginators of the strains.

[houndcrzy]

What an awesome post! I hope others along with Mike can continue to add info. to this!

[Rockcreek]

I have a buddy with this "Old blood" you talk about, Goswick and other old blood from different families. He has a male for stud that is the real deal.

[Benny G]

Mike Leonard, who still has the Goswick strain? I last talked to Rink about 9 or 10 years ago. We saw him when he was looking after the Horse Shoe Ranch - ran into him while we were gathering across the fence. At that time I believe he said his son Mark? was still hunting. Haven't heard anything since. Benny

[Coyote]

Thanks Mike, great info. Anyone have anything to add about the Butler or southern Utah strain?

Rockcreek, does his stud go back to the Goswick strain?

[pegleg]

I'd like to see pics or descriptions of the variances between these strains because alot of hounds are sold as crosses of one or more strains and unless you've been around several it's hard to be sure of where that dog came from. rockcreek whose your buddy and what dog is he studing out got any pics of him or his pups getting it done?

[Rockcreek]

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=13283

[Ike]

How many outcrosses I do not know.

If a guy does very much outcrossing it doesn't have the old blood but a new blood in my opinion. I know and have a number of friends that have hunted and bred back into the hounds of old, and hold that blood special because of where it came. And if those things are important to a man then even if a little of that blood going back to the "hounds of old" it may well be enough. However, we all know that pups from the same litter land in different hands and have different ability. Knowing that (that pups of the same litter vary) how can we expect a distant relative to hold the traits, desire, ability or any of the things we hold dear even remotely close to "the dogs of old?"

I'm not saying the dogs of old were better (and in fact they may have been less if any of our breeding programs have worked) or worse, just saying they are different......but you gotta love a hound that goes back to any of the old blood in my opinion.

ike

[Benny G]

Just curious, if today's dogs don't go back to the "old dogs" where in the heck did they originate from?