Buying and selling dogs....

[poser]

This seems to be a topic that comes up all the time. Unfortunatelly we mostly hear about the bad parts of these deals. Trying......lol, to keep this educational for buyers and sellers, please post how you buy or sale a dog. It isn't a right or wrong it's what you do and your opinion.

Hopefully this will help people when buying or selling and what to look for. Bigfoot also made a post in the general forum that has some good information. Not saying i agree with it all but its a good post.

Here is my ideas on it.

If i am sellin a dog, i would encourage the interested party to come and hunt with it as many times as they could. Once is not enough in my opinion. At that point they can usually judge if the dog was handled and hunted in a way that would work for them. I will not ever guarantee a dog.....not even sure what that means to some people. If you are wanting a guarantee, you better get it in writing. Better yet, make yourself that "guarantee". Guarantee yourself that you will do everything possible to buy the dog that you are looking for. Then if the dogs has problems you atleast know what you bought and now you need to learn how to fix it. Its easier to fix a problem if you are aware there is one, instead of blaming someone for selling you a cull.

As a buyer and seller get a health certificate...before the dog leaves and the money has been exchanged. This will protect both parties and you will know if the dog has any problems.

Basically, do as much as you can before you actually exchange money. You might loose out on a few dogs but when you actually take one home it will be the right one. Once money is exchanged its a done deal in my book.

[Cowboyvon]

I just bought a dog from Jeff Shaw and the deal we had was I took the money to him and took the dog.. he said hunt her do what you want if you don't like her bring her back in the same condition you took her and I'll give you your check back I said 30 days.. Now if anything happened to her in that 30 days I'm responsible if a lion knocks her off of a bluff or if I just walk out and find her dead in the kennel.. but if for some reason I don't like her or if he misrepresented her I take her back and get my check back.. Of course I realize both parties have to be honest .. the check has to be good.. the guy can't cash it and spend the money.. what ever, but anytime you deal with people you have to have a certain amount of trust if you don't you better not be dealing with them in the first place.

Oh and by the way I took the dog out (Lilly) and hunted her the next day after I brought her home.. she was exactly what Jeff said she was so I called him that night and told him to cash the check I was keeping her..

[alphaknl]

Do what YOU need to make YOURSELF comfortable with the deal.
Check references, go hunt with the dog...AND realize that most dogs over the age of 1 are someone's reject. Don't expect the best all around dog. Usable for some aspect, yes

My favorite question to ask is "What will the dog (parents) do alone?" People just don't know if the dog will cold trail alone, run to catch without company, or stay on a rogue bear all by its lonesome... Heck, I couldn't answer that with some of the dogs in the group that I run with. It is just a consequence of running a pack of dogs, but abilities shouldn't be misrepresented. There are big differences between should do , supposed to do, has done, and will do. Again, it is a matter of expectations.

Personally, I don't sell dogs on trial or guarantee pups. When I purchase, I don't take trial or expect a guarantee. The only exception is a two week window for a health check. Sure a trip to the Vet is just more money, but it can save a lot of trouble down the road. I do my homework, buying and selling.

I have offers from people to replace pups that didn't suit me. I will gladly PURCHASE another pup from these gentlemen if it is what I want and need at the time. There are reasons that I did business with them in the first place, and not getting an "Ace" dog out of a pup isn't going to change that.

Basically, if I can't afford to take the loss on the purchase, I probably can't afford to hunt the dog enough to justify owning it. For the most part, hounds are relatively inexpensive, it is what follows the deal that adds up.

[cobalt]

alphaknl- That is a sound philosophy. You know what you're talking about.

[sourdough]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this subject for some time and have been a little hesitant about making a comment. Buying and selling hounds or horses can be a tricky deal for the buyer or seller. Just go to the classifieds on this site the hound dogger terminology is really something. I have been around and hunted dogs my entire life and I don’t even know some of the terminology these guys are using to sell their dogs. I have never bought an adult dog in my life and have only sold one and he was a break even sale. There is a lot to the saying “a fool and his money are soon parted” The problem people have is they don’t hunt enough to even know what a great dog is, they through their dogs down on a track and pick up dogs all day the excuses are many. Can a person guarantee an adult dog? I think so. If the person has any integrity at all then they should stand on what they sold the dog as. If you are selling pups then you should be able to guarantee the health of the pup and the rest falls on the buyer. People miss represent the ages of their senior animals every day how many 25 year old horses are sold as 19 year olds? 12 year old hounds sold as 9 year olds? Just to get some money from a used up animal they have no practical use for anymore. There are some very honest people out there selling well started and finished hounds but they don’t come cheap because they are every bit what the seller claims they are. If a person wants to continue to sell dogs then they have to stand behind what they sold. No amount of money is worth a bad reputation. So the best advice I can give is never buy a hound with out seeing it in the woods the seller will never have to guarantee something you have seen for yourself…

sourdough

[Yard Dog]

very well said sourdough

[poser]

seeing it in the woods the seller will never have to guarantee something you have seen for yourself…

Sourdough, that would save a whole lotta headache and argueing right there. Nicely said.

Alphaknl, nicely said also.

Cowboyvon, good to hear about a deal that went good. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a dog from Jeff either. Which dog did you buy? It's awesome to see things work out, im sure Jeff had some trust in you to send a dog on a 30 day trial as much as you did in buying a dog from him. Glad that things worked out. The biggest part of this is you guys discussed terms and expectations before the dog was loaded up and sent off.

Take care, jason

[Jeff Shaw NM]

Brett, Thanks for the kind words, but you've still got time to back out of the deal...

Right now i've got three dogs that are out on trial/sale to guys I never even met before the deals went down... I feel like i'm a pretty good judge of people thru some lengthy conversation, I tend to do a gut check while were conversing and I figure they should do the same.
With that said, if I don't trust someone they're not gettin one of my dogs for 30 days!!!

Any one or all of these dogs could be back tomorrow and I won't be mad or sad.

Good "HONEST" deals in dogs or other wise weather it sticks or the dog comes back home,,, tends to make friendships while the alternative creates enemies... I'll choose the friendships!!! Hands down every time.

Later, Jeff

[Rem700]

I sent a deposit to hold a pup for me, " better do it quick if you want that pup, they're gonna go quick" well bred coonhound pup with all grnite and nitech ped. The pup is in Kentucky, I'm in P.A., about 700 miles. The exchange was to be made in N. C. at Southern English Days. Well the guy got my deposit and now won't answer my questions, email current pics, and the only thing I heard from him was he wants the pup picked up a day earlier, no way I can get there. In other words, I got your money, now it's your problem. I'll eat the deposit, it's no big deal, but I really wanted that pup, I'm going to try calling him one more time, if I get no positive response, I'm going to post his name on every forum I belong to.

[Trueblue]

Outstanding post Jeff !! I like the way you think.

[catdogs]

I don’t even know some of the terminology these guys are using to sell their dogs.

Boy that's the truth....make sure you know what some of these guys are really saying and don't be intimidated or afraid to ask. Maybe we all should post a houndsman dictionary of definitions, slang, lingo and other dog jargon.... For example....

I got a small, medium nosed, old, bent, Gyp, grade, female for sale with decent track speed. She is mostly a cat dog but has been on a few bears... She's finished but won't start her own track. She's a good pack dog and will usually ride a rig.... Oh ya, and she is paddle footed, a babbler, track straddler and will occasionly jack a track..... Guaranteed - cheap!

About every word there can mean a whole lotta different things, depending on who you talk to.

[cat and bear]

Boys, you opened a can of worms. Wow, how to answer. First honesty. Second, define the terms, cold nose, bay, tree, independant, speed, etc. Everyone has a different pole to judge these definitions. example, cold nose, is that six hour, twelve hour, twenty four hour old track. In what conditions? wi swamps, leaves in fall etc. Get to know the buyers expectations through conversations. Judge him as a houndsman, and hunter. The dogs he has now, are they mean, trashy, etc. What game is he hunting, is your dog capable or bred for what he is hunting?. I just picked up two young dogs, from nevada, cat strain, 9 months old, got them to wi, there were exactly what the man represented them as. Encourange them to hunt with dog, talk to your hunting buddies, until they are comfortable. Get a vet check on both ends, know the area. a movie star from out west, will not look good in wi swamps and water for about a year. Same goes for flat land dogs, going to the mountains. Both parties need to understand this, dogs can go from wi to maine, nc, florida and do well, use to water, thick cover etc. match the buyer to the terrian your dogs are use to or vise versa.

Short story, I was in florida 6 years ago, a man from N.C. called me, said he had cancer, never met me, heard I knew and had good dogs, he said, he needed one, as he didnt know if he could beat cancer. He needed a rig dog, and cold trailer, asked if I could help him. Him and his family was going hunting all fall, to different states. I said, sir, I will sell you my best dog, if god lets me live, another year or two, I will make another. I met his dad in tn, on my way home, as he was to weak to travel, and sold the dog to them folks. the man beat cancer, and killed many bear with him. Last fall, he called wanted a couple of my best. I said, if you want one, I'm busy working, buy the whole works. The family pooled their money, and bought my seven bear dogs, off a pic I sent them. The last season in nc, they hunted and killed several bear, and said, each dog was what i said, and described. no writting, no trial, never seen them run, it was on my word, more should be honest, and do business this way, and treat buyers, the same you would want to be treated.

[Dan Edwards]

I aint never been involved in a bad dog deal. Got a good ole fashion ass f@&$in a few times but it werent bad. I just took a long shower and cried myself to sleep for a week and it was all good. Never screwed a man on a horse, mule, or dog so I can look at myself in the mirror and know I'm an honest man and my kids can look up at their daddy and know in the hearts and minds that daddy dont tell no lies and that means more to me than anything else in the whole world.

[cat and bear]

I aint never been involved in a bad dog deal. Got a good ole fashion ass f@&$in a few times but it werent bad. I just took a long shower and cried myself to sleep for a week and it was all good. Never screwed a man on a horse, mule, or dog so I can look at myself in the mirror and know I'm an honest man and my kids can look up at their daddy and know in the hearts and minds that daddy dont tell no lies and that means more to me than anything else in the whole world.

Dan, you are funny, and a true man