finishing a track

[sourdough]

How much emphasis do you put in your hounds finishing a track?

[Mike Leonard]

Not sure I am understanding this question correctly. But to me it is all about finishing the track. O h like to see a dog strike and I like to see a god grub and trail but the emphasis of their work better be finishing that track or I am not interested in them. After all you don't need tree dogs if you never get to the tree.

[Big Mike]

Finishing the track! Isnt that the whole point. Not all tracks can be finished. but when im not seeing fur in the tree enough, its time for some changes

[sourdough]

Great point Mike and Big Mike,

Finishing any track should be the goal of every houndsmen out there. My point should have been does trailing an animal all day please you? Even if that track does not come to an end? My expectations from my hounds are to finish every track my dogs strike or that I send them down. Should I be disappointed if they don’t finish them?

sourdough

[Ike]

Should I be disappointed if they don’t finish them?

sourdough

No, and any man who claims that his hounds finished every track either don't have dogs that will move an old track or is not being honest with you sourdough. Like I've always said: time, distance and energy is what lion hunting is all about on open ground. If those hounds push a shitty track all day and don't get it jumped before dark then those hounds have earned their way and feed in my books.

I've had lots of discussion about leaving dogs out all night and this is how I look at it. The proclamations say a guys isn't suppose to pursue after dark, and if a guy can get to those hounds he should pull them to be legal--period! I always attempt to move into range of my hounds in the closing hours of daylight, and if they don't make the jump before dark I call them in if possible. That's what I call playing by the rules! Now it's easy to sit on a guy's butt and claim he couldn't pull his dogs off that track, but to me it either means a guy hasn't learned how, he doesn't know how, he's just using the situation hoping for a tree come morning.

Personally I'd rather rig and run an old track (and walk down that track with the dogs) and enjoy the dog work than running down a hot lion in the snow or dirt, a pop up so to speak......hell a damn pup will do that!

ike

[twist]

I am talking bobcat tracks every time I turn out I expect to be at a tree now that doesnt happen but that is what I expect. I also expect the hounds to jump every cat I turn out on and I do have a high success rate of jumping cats and yes some sure get away if I told you different I would be full of bs. I do think a person needs to place a high standered on thier hounds if they are wanting to catch game consistantly and yes ending at the tree is a big one for me and my hounds. later, Andy

[pegleg]

I think your really trying to gauge your hounds cold trailing ability. yes the finish is the point. and a hound that straddles a track and SAVORS a track to much can turn a catch into a loss this has been misinterpreted by some as cold nosed. It is NOT a cold nosed hound can take a old track warm it up run it and tree his game. He does not stay in the same spot, he does not stay 8 hours behind the game. if a hound is catching game and speeding up on the track I don't worry how hard it is for them to start unless suddenly ALL the tracks are old cold ones this is a for sure warning sign!! if you have a concern run with someone else's hounds once that your sure has good hounds. this will answer most of your quality questions.

[mulemanbl]

A couple months ago I released on a large Tom track. It was a few days old from what I could tell. I put my dogs on it and away they went up a draw onto a ridge top where all the snow was melted and the sun was shining bright. They worked that track all day long. Progressed about 2 miles of just pounding their noses to the ground. It was getting late so I pulled them off. I was proud of them for working the track so hard. That night I get a phone call from a friend and he tells me about this guy who's putting up lions like crazy and how great his dogs are. I ask what kind of conditions does he run in? How old are the tracks? Few weeks later I go out dogs strike on dry ground and within a few hours I got a Tom bayed in the cliffs. No snow, horrible conditions. Most houndsmen wouldn't run where I run because of the lack of snow and terrain and you have to hike or go horseback. In those two trips my dogs got 1 lion treed but worked their butts off to get him. My question is would you rather your dogs work their butts off and have so-so- tree success or be the fortunate ones who can take off work every snow day and cut fresh tracks and dump your dogs and have lions treed fairly easily? And which dogs are better ?

[Ike]

Only hounds that I've ever had run out from under mine on a cold track did it because they broke on trash.....

ike

[pegleg]

ike most times you make since but on occasion you type something like that. if a hound has a good dog to follow he wont work the track by himself but mosey along with them bawling like he's working to unless your really paying attention to who's really working it out. hunting with another is just a hint at whats happening. and a dog is only as good as he is alone!!!

[grouse]

This kind of seems like a personal preferance question to me. If your happy with running game to listen to your dog run and don't care about the end results then thats your business ,if that makes you happy then fine. Me personally i expect my dogs when they strike a coon to either have it in the tree or run it in a hole. The same with my coyote hounds i expect them to run it until it holes or it gets caught or shot ,or we pull them off because it's to late. This is just me , i'm not saying they do it 100% of the time but thats what i expect.

[Ike]

ike most times you make since but on occasion you type something like that. if a hound has a good dog to follow he wont work the track by himself but mosey along with them bawling like he's working to unless your really paying attention to who's really working it out. hunting with another is just a hint at whats happening. and a dog is only as good as he is alone!!!

I sure as the hell never watched them follow a hound down a track pegleg, and it makes me wonder what goes on in the field when you guys hunt. What I see on a cold track is one dog leading and then another, each taking turns and no single dog leaving the rest. I use to have a silent mouth dog that would drift off and strike, and sometimes go tree a bobcat alone....and I got rid of those silent running dogs because of that. In my opinion, a hound better open when it strikes if it's gonna stay around my house..........

My old blue Ryan dog use to get out ahead of the pack on a jumped bear, a hot track, but they pretty much honor each other and trade leads is what i've seen over the years. There are exceptions in that sometimkes one or two dogs will find a way through a rock pile faster than others.

I suppose if I don't always make sense then some of the rest of you better reread your own posts...........

ike

[pegleg]

that's why I put a disclaimer on most of what I post this is what i am saying ike I have seen hounds fool some damn good hound guys when hunted in company. they will float around and hit a spot in the track here and there but when left to do it on their own can't or won't same difference to me. I am not going to start a argument or name calling or my dog your hound thing here. I have seen your pride run away with you once or a few times. not trying to get under your skin if i was i'd come straight out ike. that's just the way I am. back to the discussion, this is what I am saying your hounds can't trail exactly the same! IF they do then they are definitely not the same talent /skill wise. they're not the same age they have not trailed the same number of tracks in the same conditions. so if they appear to be the same the older more experienced hounds are falling behind or just never achieved it in the first place. so some one is benefiting in a pack situation. one hundred men digging a ditch and some are doing more work some fall in the "average" bracket and then some need to be culled! some are just older, younger,ill. who knows but no one is even the same day to day. we strive for a pack that works like a well drilled corp ,however that is a fallacy in itself. I do breed/train for improvement and equality and expect as much from anyone breeding dogs. we know perfection is a dream and still strive for it and that is as it should be.

[Ike]

A couple months ago I released on a large Tom track. It was a few days old from what I could tell. I put my dogs on it and away they went up a draw onto a ridge top where all the snow was melted and the sun was shining bright. They worked that track all day long. Progressed about 2 miles of just pounding their noses to the ground. It was getting late so I pulled them off. I was proud of them for working the track so hard. That night I get a phone call from a friend and he tells me about this guy who's putting up lions like crazy and how great his dogs are. I ask what kind of conditions does he run in? How old are the tracks? Few weeks later I go out dogs strike on dry ground and within a few hours I got a Tom bayed in the cliffs. No snow, horrible conditions. Most houndsmen wouldn't run where I run because of the lack of snow and terrain and you have to hike or go horseback. In those two trips my dogs got 1 lion treed but worked their butts off to get him. My question is would you rather your dogs work their butts off and have so-so- tree success or be the fortunate ones who can take off work every snow day and cut fresh tracks and dump your dogs and have lions treed fairly easily? And which dogs are better ?

Finally a guy who talks and sees lion hunting as it is. Like I said, running down a lion on fresh snow is lion hunting 101. If a guy measures his hounds and his success by getting under the tree then he should do what you have just said, and that is take off work on every fresh snow and work when it gets old. But don't ever plan on having a good set of trail hounds by hunting fresh snow. I pick the open ground dogs that will pound down a tough track all day long without getting caught as my favorite type hound. That's the kind of dog I call a finished lion hound, and that is a dog that will start and trail a lion that isn't catchable by anybodies hounds.



ike

[Ike]

Last fall we rigged a track in the canyon and could not find the track on the ground so drove on. About an hour later we rigged again up on top in the quaken aspen trees, and then found both the front and rear pad tracks of a boar that was killing size. We put my two red dogs down first and they had trouble starting the track, but finally did start to push it into the trees, so the other four dogs were put down, my two five year old hounds, and then my two three year old dogs.

Those six hounds pounded down that track, in the timber and on the northern slope, for about four hours then began to quit the track one by one at around 2:00 PM. Truth be known those dogs didn't move that track much over three miles in four hours, but the direction or line of that bear crossed the canyon below where the hounds had hit that morning. We could have shipped dogs on a blind track down in the canyon and either gotten further down the track or maybe even treed it, but that ain't trophy hunting to turn blind into old scent.

My point is none of those dogs moved off and left the others, and even if I had a single dog that would do that it wouldn't tree that size a boar by it's self. Therefore, I'd say a hound like that ain't worth much to me unless he brings the others with him. But since both of my parents and grandparents are from Missouri, I'd still have to see it to believe it........

ike