harvest objective bear in UTAH

[black eye]

Well looks like our fine UDWR has it on their mind to open some bear hunting in Utah with the harvest objective hunt stratagy. Just wondering what all you guys think of this plan???

Seems we have played this game with our lions havent we??

Meetings will be in december if anybody is concerned.

[bad moon]

sounds like a sure way to ruin a good thing. almost seems as if they dont want anything to flourish but the coyotes. we have a terrible deer population, lions seems to be damn near extinct still got decent elk but late season depradation to keep they off highway 89 took a huge toll on the bulls in my area. however after seeing this years cub crop it seemed to me like bears are the only thing coming up in numbers and now they want to make sure they are killing plenty of them. might be a good way of controlling numbers if hunters were smart about it i do hope they put in some sort of female cap to keep things under control a little.

[Neff]

It is all about how much money they can make they dont care about the game. There are no deer in the state the quality of elk in the state are on the decline there are few Lions left we are working on killing all of them off and now it appears they are after the bear. We as hound hunters need to be involved with this one and stop it from happening. Lets all plan on being at the meeting and stand up and be heard.

[bad moon]

what are the details on the meeting?

[Yard Dog]

The only thing consistant with the DWR is how inconsistant it manages the game in this state. Most sportsmen would rather see a constant plan with only small adjustments from time to time. No matter what the species, they don't seem to have a handle on the direction they want to go. Just a few years ago they were painting a pretty bleak picture of the bear numbers according to there own studys. They moved the spring season up a week or two in an effort to avoid fewer sows being taken and now they are talking about a hunt that is basiscally a race to take a bear before the season is closed. I hope this is just a rumor......

[black eye]

This is not a rumor!!! Show up to any rac meeting in december this IS in the new bear management plan proposal. Seems to me that the dwr has plenty of studies going and still dont have any idea of bear populations. So lets sell the tags over the counter.

Sow sub-quota was shot down. Fools!!!!

Here is my real question if the lion population sucks as it does, and bobcat populations are at a 20 year low "according to the dwr". Plans to destroy the bear population.

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF TRAINING DOGS IN UTAH?????

YOU TELL ME SEEMS THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL!!!

JMO

[Bearkiller]

As it stands now if you want to hunt in Utah in the fall it's a popularity contest. I've lived here for 5 years and have yet to go on a fall hunt. I don't have the luxury of having family here to put in and with the exception of a few people I don't want everyone I work with or go to church with to put in and expect a free guided hunt. I like to hunt mostly solo with the exception of my immediate family and one or 2 other guys. I think you may end up with fewer sows being killed and better bears in general. Especially since people won't feel obligated to kill just any bear because it took 10 years to draw the tag and it was bad weather in the spring and basically they have a week or 2 to hunt. I am 100% in favor of doing this in the fall. If it's a spring time only thing then I am indifferent. Other than it might be safer being able to carry a rifle to get dogs off of a bayed up bear. I'm not sure why people in Utah think quotas can't work for them when they work in other states. I'm not sure why people in Utah are so OK with the game bing managed for the rich. Just look at the LE deer and elk hunts. Land owners getting tags and being able to sell animals that the taxpayers own, to the highest bidder. The idea with those tags is to compensate for the damage the animals have done. It shouldn't be to make land owners more wealthy by allowing them to sell tags for thousands of dollars.

[Neff]

Well this is the problem I see with split Limited Entry / Harvest Objective, Example a lmited entry Lion unit here in Utah now turned into a split LE / HO as of last year, which is already in trouble as far as Lion numbers go, was over killed by Six lions before it was shut down last year. This will be a problem in the future for all of us. If this happens it will be no different for Bear. Most Hound hunters will be first in line to by an HO permit and get one killed (for the dogs). We will cause considerable damage to the very thing that we love to do, and soon there will be nothing to chase with our hounds. I know its hard for all of us to look into the future but please try. If you ask me i think the Utah DWR is very smart. $$$$$$$$$ This is just my opinion

[Bearkiller]

So how come quotas work in other states? I think it's pretty simple. If they over kill a unit by 6, cut the quota the next year or on the fall hunt, if it happened in the spring. That will help. Also, lions are a little different than bears. I don't think a good snow storm would have quite the same effect on bear kills as it does lions. I don't know that unit but my bet would be that there was a good snow when those lions got overkilled. I can't foresee a scenario where that would happen with bears. I wonder how other states manage to not kill all of their bears with out having them all be draw hunts. Maybe Utah needs to go the way of Idaho and make it a draw for non residents only. Guys hunt in such big groups around here, you'd think a little leadership would go a long way in keeping bears alive.

[bad moon]

i belive the overkill could still easily happen the same with bears as lions. i see it as this, such and such unit opens its ho on saturday with two tags to be filled, with a 48hr turn in dead line come monday or tuesday when everything officially is finally turned in and the unit closed several more have been killed. i see people looking at it and knowing some units could close in a single weekend so we better take what we can get. i bet if some one did some checking into this i would not be suprised as to how much infuence outfitters have on this.

[bad moon]

it might work better if they made it a requirement to for a warm hide turn in and updated the unit status through the weekend to take up some of the delay time for extra animals to get whacked. i still think it becomes to much of a race to get one before it closes making more likely for some one to shoot something other than trophy boars.


just to throw something possative to the idea. on lions there is some units that dont close and though they are hard hunting it gives me something to do while the better units close. not sure how it will work with the bears but it may allow for a little bit of fall hunting every year for those of us that cant draw a tag.

[Bearkiller]

You guys make hound hunters sound like these blood thirsty people who kill everything they catch. I would say that most of the "unethical" kills I've seen are by boot hunters who have no idea what they are shooting or occasionally by young/inexperienced guys who truthfully aren't catching enough game to make a difference. I've only been here 5 years so I may be missing something. I understand the downside of the HO but I can assure you that I will be at the RAC meetings supporting it, if it'll open the fall up to everybody. Anything is better than a popularity contest.

[houndnem]

Here's my Idea with the H.O. The reason for the overkill is the 48 hour check in period, which in utah is more like 5 days by the time they update. we should have 48 hrs to check in game, but we should have to call and report it before 10pm the day we kill by phone.They could update the system every night at ten and it would close when it closed. right???

[bad moon]

i would say that idea could definatley help. all it would wold take is one person from each office with an on call cell phone to take the weekend calls and update there system. i still think the race to the finish line theory will result in people posible shooting non trophy animals.as far as us saying houndsmen are blood thirsty killers that is not the case. however there are those that make a look at it as the more of those tags i can fill with their own hunters the better their bank account.jmo no offensive to the guys doing this cause just like every one else i dream of the possabilities of making a living off my hounds but i dont so my own personal top prioritey is maintaining top numbers so my hunting experiances can be the best possible. in all actuality it should be everybodys concern from the weekend warrior type to full time guides. the facts are simple the more game there is to chase the more your going to catch. this ho system would probaby work in a perfect world where every one was selective as to what was harvested.

[Bplott]

Maybe BLACKEYE should enlighten us on where he found this information?? As far as i know this is not a houndsmen free for all..like the lion.. it is more directed to private land owners and areas inexcessable to hounds for people to be able to harvest if the want and it is a 3 unit type trial ONLY set-up..but i will encourage all houndsmen to show up at every rac and board meeting they can people and groups get noticed in numbers...