Wisconsin's Split Bobcat Season. A Success?

[alphaknl]

Wisconsin's Split Bobcat Season

It has been a good snow year.
One reason for the change was to provide more opportunities for people to get out. Did you find that to be the case?

How about competition? Did things get spread out?

Was the trapping pressure focussed on the first season?

What does everyone think?

[mondomuttruner]

I'm still up in the air about that one. A few good snow years and the cat population could be wiped out with enough open tags. With the deep snow this year it wasn't much of a challenge to bay up or tree cats. I'd much rather run in 2 or 3 inches to separate the men from the boys.

[Nolte]

I didn't like it one bit. They should have left it the way it was. All it did was put more pressure on the cats. Good cat sections turned into ghost towns for weeks on end. Guys pounded the easier sections and all that was left was the miserable wolf infested ones.

To top it off, finding a tag was near impossible. Espcecially during the second season. i can't stand relying on somebody else to be there for me to hunt. A guy can't purposely run without a tag when a kill season is on.

Pressure didn't get spread out one bit at all, in fact I think it made it worse.

I didn't see any cat trappers out there, but I never do.

[blackpaws]

A guy can't purposely run without a tag when a kill season is on.

Nolte i would check the regs on that one. i am 99% sure you can run a cat anytime of the year without a tag as long as you don't have a gun or intend to kill the cat. there is no law against pursuing or training on cats. in fact you don't even need a license to train on bobcats as long as you don't have a gun un cased any time of the year that it is legal to have a dog running at large. that was from a warden who stopped us once but i would check on it if you are wanting to just run a cat.

[blackpaws]

A guy can't purposely run without a tag when a kill season is on.

Nolte i would check the regs on that one. i am 99% sure you can run a cat anytime of the year without a tag as long as you don't have a gun or intend to kill the cat. there is no law against pursuing or training on cats. in fact you don't even need a license to train on bobcats as long as you don't have a gun un cased any time of the year that it is legal to have a dog running at large. that was from a warden who stopped us once but i would check on it if you are wanting to just run a cat.

i didn't mind it but a few good winters the cats are in trouble.

[Nolte]

I've looked in the regs and like always you can't really tell if it's OK or not. I know you didn't need one after season for sure.

The new seasons created another 4-5 weeks of harvest capability where pressure was elevated. Most guys won't hunt for cats if they don't have a harvest tag. I like being able to check a few places without having a dozen dog rigs circling the block.

[Dan McDonough]

I'm just crossing my fingers that there will be more males killed. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that would be the case but a guy can dream.

I talked to John Huff today and he was very open about the process and said that they put a disproportionate amount of time into working on bobcat issues. Of course I like to hear that but it would seem that they could use some help. I'm the last one who likes to help the gov. but I think that as soon as I'm done with the Leopard yearbook, I'm going to try and spend some time compiling data from the other states and put together some ideas to get people discussing the issue.

I've not gotten involved with the conservation congress so far but that might be a good idea so i can see how the WI. system works. Seems pretty slow but we'll see.

Have any of you gone to the Cons. Congres meetings?

I'd rather be in the woods but this stuff usually takes place in the spring and I think it would be interesting to see if a few people working on this could make a difference. I have not checked the dates but I'm hoping that it is durning the leash law time of May and June.

Anyway, I'm tired of bitching about how things are set up. I'm jumping in.

I don't think that WI. has done a lot of looking at what other states are doing and that will be my first project.

Anyone want to join me?

[Nolte]

Just an update on the the DNR sent me on cat training subject.

"You won't need a training license to train your dog on wild bobcat, but there are other regulations that you need to be aware of. 1) your dog(s) can't kill any wild animal while they are training; 2) if you are hunting bobcat you need a current license and permit valid for bobcat. For a resident that would be a small game license and a bobcat harvest permit/carcass tag. For a non-resident, that would be a furbearer hunting license and a bobcat harvest permit/carcass tag. The bobcat harvest permit/carcass tag are obtained through an application process and a lottery. It is legal to train your dog on wild bobcat during the open season and you don't need those licenses or harvest permit/carcass tags to do so. While training on the bobcat, you are not allowed to kill, capture, or attempt to kill or capture the bobcat."

Dan, I'll let you have all sorts of fun with that. I don't have the patience for it. You'll get caught in the middle. The hounds guys won't like what you're doing and the other hunters won't either. From what I've heard from other guys who've been on Cons Congress, it's just a competition on who bitches the most.

To be honest, I don't have any solutions/ideas to solve the hounding issues. I actually liked it when gas was $4/gallon and we didn't have any bear tags. Not many guys in the woods. I think our main effort has to be getting non-hounding public to better understand what we do, be it hunters or others. Then the next step is we've got to get all this wolf BS under control. It's only a matter of time before it happens to everyone of us. I know the list is growing of guys who've had it happen. We can figure out all the rest after that is accomplished.

[Dan McDonough]

I'm turning into a coyote hunter! That doesn't look like anyone has any idea about any of this. They scratch their heads and wonder why so many WI. cats get sold over the border. They are not oblivious to the fact. They just can't figure out how else to do run it.

I offered to look into how other states have run their programs and if I have time this year I will do just that. I've not figured out how to come at this yet. I do know that J. Huff thought for an instant that I was suggesting that the hunters should be getting something out of this that the trappers would not get. He got pretty short with me until he realized I was just trying to figure out how to grow more cats and also shoot more cats in this state. If there were any way to count the cats that actually get shot or trapped in this state, they would just get out of the way with the current regulations, things would be fine with a set of normal regulations.

I don't think that very many more cats would get killed than do now. That may not make sense to some but I think there are a ton of cats that get shipped out. The trappers are not going to stop ditching any more cats. That will actually go down bacause they won't have to worry about getting caught with a cat they don't have a tag for. They could just regulate the population with a shorter kill season instead of making it pointless to chase them. If it were completely up to me I would open it up all of the way...same with fisher, fox and WOLVES. Would that be nice. I'm right with you on the wolves. The people are taking care of things themselves on that matter and it doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Steve White]

The cat thing is a hard one to figure out. Contrary to house cats bobbers seem to take a long time to repopulate. Even where prey is abundant they come back real slow once gone. 10yrs ago it was not hard to find a cat every day. Now I am lucky to find one every couple of weeks. I know we all complain about not getting tags. I am just as guilty of it. Disappointed not drawing with 7pts. Yet, what good would it do me if I can't find a cat. Yes there are pockets of decent populations. Still the overall population is down. One has to thing it is a result of the amount of predators on a whole. Wolves, coyotes, fox, and fisher are all competing for the same foods. We know which one wins that battle!!!

How do we fix this? Don't think anyone knows. Looking at what other states do may help if looking at ones like Maine, or the western states. The western states may not be a good idea. Since it seems with the lions many don't really care to pursue the bobbers. MI would not be a good one to look at. It's a free for all there. Everyone gets 2 tags when buying a furbearer license. Same thing there with numbers being down with pockets of good populations.

has to be a good way to do a population study. Yet, none have seem to be implemented or work. A few years ago they did that phermone/hair trap study. Worked as well on bobbers as it does on bigfoot. It was funny to see cat tracks walking by those setups.

I am mixed on the new season structure. It's nice to have the later season when there may be better snow. I can see though where there may be more pressure with the extended season. With more guys looking for a longer period of time. Still with few cats, looking is all they are doing. So I don't think with the amount of tags it is going to casuse them to be wiped out. With the split season it doe not give anyone more time to fill a tag. Only gives certian groups more time to pursue them. If that makes sense. If you draw a tag in one thats the time you get. It does though give me more time to take other hunters. If that makes more sense. Perhaps this will increase the success rate overall.

Wish we could find a way to fix the population that would make everyone happy!!!

[cat and bear]

All you guys brought up some good opinions or idea's. Dan if you want to get involved in the conservation congress, a friend from Forest county has been on it for years, and he is also a hound hunter. He will give you a lot of advice to cut to the chase. If I understand right, there is five committe's and five reps from each county, assuming on for each committe. I would imagine he is on the bear committe, but unsure.

In regards to the cat population, and the late season, i believe its a great way to get them wipped out. I asked my local warden about it, and he said they wasnt even asked for an opinion, as it was all political. Steve brought up some valids points of more season for guiding. Problem is, what about all the cats, that is getting caught in a foot of snow, and not being tagged or talked about. Hell that was my wardens concern, for the population. And if you dont think its happening, your fooling yourself. We passed up several med. tracks, looking for a big tom, and the shooter, understood, they catch it, regardless of size, its your's, so lets be careful on what, we are turning on. Seems like the most cat population is in private lands, and protected. Which should be a clue to our problem's. Adding wolves, the highest population of yotes I've ever seen, competition for food, there going to be wipped out. Including the trappers which get some by mistake, I dont see much positive, growing a bigger population, without a major overhaul, guys changing their ways, and the state having better management, and getting rid of this late season idea, or perhaps even split the season into zones, where the snow conditions vary in general.

[Nolte]

I would imagine he is on the bear committe, but unsure.

Ron,

Has you friend heard anything on a question about a change to let baitsitters go first every year? I thought it said they'd have a 35 day season while hound guys would get the same 28.

The way it sounded was that last year in trying to get the "bear bill" through they almost made a deal to let the baitsitters get the first 2 days, so they'd support our bill. That seems like a bad deal for us, no matter what we'd get in return.

The cats in our area have been pounded pretty good for 3 years now. A good number of tags and decent snow equals a bunch of cats harvested. With this longer season, we aren't going to have those "bad" snow years that saves a bunch of cats. There are also seems to be more guys who are getting better at catching cats.

One thing I do know is that the guys who are out after season closes are there to just run a cat to train. They want some dog work and a dead cat won't give them much training the next time.

[Houndhead]

Steve brought up some valids points of more season for guiding.

Personally i would love to see them eliminate guiding for bobcats.Bear too for that matter.If us houndmen were smart enough not to take every Tom,DicK,and Harry that draws a tag,maybe it would not take 7-8 years to draw a tag.

[Dan McDonough]

Everything likes to eat bobcat kittens it seems.

To Kill:

Male Bobcats
Fisher
Coyotes
Wolves (all)
Red Fox
Feral Cats
In that order...

If you want more cats, this is what you need to be doing the rest of the year. If everyone had a few den terriers, there wouldn't be as many critters in the way. They don't eat much and are easy to care for. Just an idea.

[Nolte]

Personally i would love to see them eliminate guiding for bobcats.Bear too for that matter.If us houndmen were smart enough not to take every Tom,DicK,and Harry that draws a tag,maybe it would not take 7-8 years to draw a tag.

Hound,

I hear ya, but I don't have the answer. I know we've got it a lot better than up in the UP. Is taking out a stranger and getting them a critter for free any different than charging a guy to do the same thing. Not really. But what are the options, sit at home and wait by the mailbox for that magical punch tag to come once every decade. Most likely you will get crappy conditions and get blanked.

Nothing and I mean nothing burns my ass more than getting a trophy critter and the guy doesn't appreciate it or have an understanding of what he's got. I guarantee it will only happen once with me. Good guys who help out and are appreciative got an open invite anytime if we've got room.

Does anybody know what the limits/rules are for a guy who comes with in WI? Is a guy buying you a beer or a cup of coffee considered compensation? How about gas, bag dog food, etc. Just curious.