A Coyote & the Cat Dog?

[Warner5]

At times a man needs to be reminded he dosent know everything Does anyone know what a coyote race sounds like when your young dogs take him backwards? I'll give you a hint, we are in the bobcat forum. Not long ago I was telling someone in this forum to think outside the box. I am alway's finding I should take my own advice. To me the coyote is the most feared off game in the forest, just the thought of an out of control, pick your dog up in the next county looking like casper the ghost coyote race. will give me a sleepless nite. So what do you guy's do to keep your cat dogs clean of coyotes? I will tell you what I do. Most times I find myself over correcting or over training but this is also counter productive. So my ears are open. What is your best advice for dealing with. A Coyote & The Cat Dog? Thankyou, John Warner.

[dwalton]

John here is something I believe but most people don't. Dogs don't run coyotes naturally, we teach them to, by running them with dogs that run coyotes. If you are going to run one with dogs that are bent it will usually be January or February when coyotes are breeding. The hard part about breaking them is we don't really know there are running until its to late to correct them. Set up a control situation to correct them. If the bird nesting thing is cleared up it would be good if a few of us got some coyotes dogs again. With the Garmins it would be easy to get a head of them or find them when they caught them on the ground. Dewey

[Hipshooter]

If u live close to a coyote pen
U can break them easy.
If u go to a pen just turn one dog loose with the local coyote dogs.
Shock him off then turn one more out.
Don,t turn your whole pack loose at one time.
U will have better luck this way.
In the late summer & early fall
If dogs get after a young coyote
U can,t hardly till if it is cat or coyote
As a young pup coyote will usally run close like a cat
& not find a new zip code like they do later in the winter.

[pegleg]

I firmly believe all hounds have a preferred game animal "besides deer/skunks" this is why I like to look for hounds from parents that hunt that animal in the method/style I hunt. it is not always possible and sometimes they aren't as straight in their preference as you would like. I have had hounds that will trash a fox but run cats by choice more often. coyotes are not something I've had a real issue with period. I have had breeding season coyotes ask for it on occasion and even had the dogs catch a few but the reality was they pushed to hard and didn't run fast enough once the hounds had enough bs. and got serious about it. I had one male bluff and charge my hounds for close to a hour sometimes as close as thirty feet or less. I'm not sure if they look at them as other dogs or just not much interest in the first place. stag hounds have no major issue with the distinction but I've seen a stag grab a terrier once before.
I have trailed through them coming off lion kills with out much notice. but to start and run a warm/hot coyote with out serious antagonistic behavior from the coyote first hasn't happened to my knowledge yet. I do follow my hounds closely on horse back and would surely remember it. I have a pack of coyotes that frequents one of my houses and the hounds will bark at them and even run them off but they loose interest real quick and will come back after a couple hundred yards.
I have owned some strains/breed of hounds that were just damn trashy to begin with that probably would have been more interested in coyotes then most. I also presume that the running hounds and those with foxhound in their pedigree would be more prone to running coyotes then those with out. so the bobcat guys running foxhounds should have more insight into this. even the different cross bred hounds I've owned didn't need trash breaking off coyotes.

[Warner5]

I seen this one coming, I noticed awile back that one of my young dogs was fairly loose on the box when passing coyote pissing posts. I have been working on him but without a heavy hand. Curious what he would do by himself I took him out on the 4 wheeler to check calf's. coyotes frequent new borns looking for afterbirth and such. I also put a younger hound with him, one he is dominent over, giving him lead dog status for this check. When he started the track I found cat tracks on the old road, BUT if I looked hard enough I probably could have found sign from every other critter as well. Finding the cat tracks just helped me believe what I wanted to. The race started very fast like a jumper or hot cat but then into a lose one he picked up quick. I was in on the race the entire time but from a close distance. the race ended to my disbelief, heading up the prarie onto an old prarie road tracking very slowly right up to a known coyote dig under the fence. I still could not believe this was a coyote race (I knew but I couldnt believe it) at that point I only verbaly corrected the dogs. that nite I could not sleep, so the next day I went over the portions of the race I thought would show sign. And what I found was I had run a young coyote backwards for about an 40 min. That young hound has since been corrected of this problem and will probably need it again sometime soon. I thought some of you might find this particular shit race interesting, I did. it was a good lesson for me. It goes back to my old saying-young hounds are guilty until proven innocent. when dealing with young hounds, a dog you just picked up, or each and every chance a person gets, get in there and check for sign. if not for any other reason atleast peace of mind. One bad race can fowl up a good pack of hounds for weeks. Thankyou for the responces, I am alway's looking for better more effective way's to keep my pack clean thanks again John.

[Warner5]

Have any of you used or had success with scents, to aid in breaking unwanted races? thankyou John.

[pegleg]

out of curiosity what breed is this hound? I use breaking scents and electric liberally on my hounds every time I can set up a scenario the first year or two and then if I have one it may work on at a later age. however breaking a smart hound from off game after it matures gets to be more a game of wits. I also use scent minus electricity on the new horses the first time one gets a real nose full of scent is always best in a controlled environment minus bluffs,cacti etc.

[Warner5]

He's about 2yrs. from what I know about him he's 1/2 arizona cougar dog (biggerstaf) and the other 1/2 is some cat/bear blood from up in the valley. central oregon. I have not worked with any of these line's before. from what I hear his dad (biggerstaf blood) was a coyote running SOB. and he looks like his dad. from my experience most males around this age will take to coyotes if you dont watch them. thankyou John

[Hipshooter]

Warner5
If your hound run a coyote backwards for 40 min,
he must have a hell of a nose.
Wondering how far he run the track in 40 min?

[Warner5]

This dog does have one hell of a nose, scent conditions were also as good as it gets, Taking it backwards for that long shouldnt seem all that far fetched, I have seen bobcat taken backwards 20min or more, cougar more than an hour,and now a yote 40min by a young hound. You see the track got ran backwards there was never any pressure put on the yote. The track I could hear the dogs running was the yotes daily routine without any felt pressure it was just going through its daily routine. and trust me it was shocking how much it sounded like a cat race. this race took place on my folks ranch in a little drainage I have ran critters around for 20+ years. I might not know it all, but I knew something wasent right, and I was able to figure it out before he pulled my entire pack into a full blown shit race. I got this 2 year old dog about 4 months ago, he has changed hands 3 times, I think he might have what it takes to make a good one and I thought it might not hurt to share this odd race with the rest of you, and ask for some advice at the same time. Thankyou for trying to help me out with this young dog. My eye's and ears are still open. thanks again John.