Bad Trailing Conditions

[South Texan]

Do you think it is harder for a dog to tell the difference between a track (bobcat) going forward or backward under extremely bad scenting conditions? Robbie

[mondomuttruner]

very good question. Lets talk about any conditions, do you think a dog can tell the direction of a track right off the road? Lets here your opinions. my opinion is the only reason a dog goes in any one direction rests solely on wind or air current direction. Animals will usually travel into the wind which is the direction most scent is coming from.

[South Texan]

very good question. Lets talk about any conditions, do you think a dog can tell the direction of a track right off the road? Lets here your opinions. my opinion is the only reason a dog goes in any one direction rests solely on wind or air current direction. Animals will usually travel into the wind which is the direction most scent is coming from.

Mondomuttruner,

But...say there isn't any wind or air currents. Its calm. Nothing to enticed the dog to go one direction or the other except what the dog thinks in his head is the right direction. I've seen my dogs go back and forth across the road three or four different times on the same track, trying to figure out which was the right end, but then take the backtrack. But they are proved wrong after I find the cat track going the other way.

I think we have had about 4 inches of rain here in the past year. Hot, dry, and bare ground. About as tuff of trailing conditions as it gets, but...it seems like lately my dogs get on the backtrack more often than the right end of the track, thus the reason for my question, "Is it harder for a dog to tell the difference between the front end or back end of a track in extremely tuff conditions." What is ya'lls experience with this? Robbie

[dwalton]

I have owned 4 dogs that would not take a cat track or any other track over 50 yards backwards. The only exception was in really hard track conditions or very old tracks[ 10 to 14 hours] . I have had them come back threw a pack to get to the other end as the rest of the kept going out of hearing. The ones that I have now will turn themselves sometimes. Yes they go the way there nose is headed but sometimes will turn around and go the right way. If any body out there has a strain of dogs[ any breed ]that will turn themselves around now please PM me. On real dry and warm windy conditions are the worst for trailing cat any direction. I have treed two out of five tracks the last couple of days and they had to work harder than normal in the heat. Two of the tracks I caught them off because they were headed for the bluffs. The dogs could not put the push on them enough to get them up before they made it to them. It is the driest time of the year for use here in Oregon. I am glad I don't have to put up with the dry as much as you boys do in Texas. Usually we have to much rain. Good hunting. Dewey

[pegleg]

My thought is perhaps because dry conditions tend to make the track mature faster the difference in scent between a four hour or five hour track is minimal there fore even though the hounds do try to age the trail its so similar in either direction that it is a lost cause unless there's some major difference in the circumstances. They don't back trail more often then correct but it is often enough to warrant checking every time. I have never seen my hounds take the wrong track from water of any kind unless the track was either very old or the cat back tracked a good distance for some reason. I believe once scent looses a certain amount of moisture it stops changing in specific ways while it may grow fainter or be lost if they can pick it up it smells to similar for them to age it within a reasonable distance. Scent certainly seems to under go more varied change with the presence of moisture.

[mondomuttruner]

I agree, a dog "should" be able to tell after following a track a short distance but I had a few guys say they had dogs take the right way 99% of the time right off the road which I believe a dog is incapable of doing without some air current. If the animal is traveling with the wind, the dog by rights should take the backtrack, for a ways anyways. I'm no expert on rigging but I do try to take the scientific approach to things.

[Ryan]

I'm a snow hunter so maybe my experiences aren't relevant. The only times I have had problems with dogs going backwards is when they were on very old tracks. I think they were basically sight tracking and putting there head in the track once and a while to make sure they were still on a cat. They end up getting into a deer yard with several old cat tracks in it and grab one leaving in the wrong direction. The dogs that did this had no problem keeping them going the right direction when the track was fresh enough for them to smell better.

[newby]

how can a dog know which way to take a track by looking at it (sight-tracking), i have a hard enough time and i'm pretty sure i see better than a dog. i don't know what it is, guess it's just one of those mysteries that i've just always accepted that i'd never fully understand.

kind of on the same vein of discussion, that came up in the discussion over Mike Leonard's Cat Training article, if i start a drag at the tree and work backwards...is it all about how much scent is left in the track or is it about the time elapsed from the last time the cat stepped on the ground. his theory is that "more" of the scent is left where it was applied "thicker", but i wonder if it has more to do with the "quality" of the scent that changes with each successive step in other words, is there a chemical change in what the track smells like due to the time its exposed to the environment and can a dog distinguish the difference?

i never thought about wind-currents, but don't the wind currents change moment to moment or at least from morning to evening?

[muzzy]

where im from its mostly snow conditions as well and very rarely the dogs go the wrong direction and even then its not very far they usually dont even get out of sight before they turn around and head the right direction its one of those things that nobody knows and probably never will

[South Texan]

My thought is perhaps because dry conditions tend to make the track mature faster the difference in scent between a four hour or five hour track is minimal there fore even though the hounds do try to age the trail its so similar in either direction that it is a lost cause unless there's some major difference in the circumstances. They don't back trail more often then correct but it is often enough to warrant checking every time. I have never seen my hounds take the wrong track from water of any kind unless the track was either very old or the cat back tracked a good distance for some reason. I believe once scent looses a certain amount of moisture it stops changing in specific ways while it may grow fainter or be lost if they can pick it up it smells to similar for them to age it within a reasonable distance. Scent certainly seems to under go more varied change with the presence of moisture.

Pegleg,
I have to agree with you. I think, under terrible dry conditions, that there is so little difference in the scent of the track between forwards or backwards, that it is hard for the dogs to determine which is the right end.

Also under these same dry conditions, if there is a slight breeze blowing, it is naturally going to be easier for the dogs to take the track into the wind, even though the cat might be going the other way.

Thanks for the input on this post boys, I appreciate your thoughts. Suppose to be a norther pushing thru here the first part of the week. Weathermen are saying it might get into the upper sixties for a low temperature for a few mornings. Maybe that will help a little, be better than the eighties anyway. I'll be out there in the woods to see. Thanks again. Robbie

[dwalton]

Dogs can sight track well. I think they smell enough scent in the track to make sure they are right then run by sight and check every once in awhile. A good one at it with make most dogs look bad. They do have trouble where there is a lot of tracks around. When we are able to see scent and what it is or teach a dog to talk to us we can really figure out what is happening. Until then we will just make it up based on what we think is happening. Dewey

[South Texan]

Amen to that about the scent, Mr. Dewey. I totally agree with ya. Sure wish I had a talking dog though, I would sure have some questions to ask. Thanks. Robbie

[tomtom]

X2 South Texan. I imagine the response would be something like "Oh, is that all you wanted me to do? Hell that's easy." Drives me nuts...

[Ryan]

[quote=Until then we will just make it up based on what we think is happening. Dewey[/quote]


Amen

[Redneck]

this is coming from my many years playin in the hills and being a wild land fire fighter there is always thermals non felt winds . even at night the thermals go down hill to heat the valley floor and during the day they go up hill to warm the hill side's so there is always movement in the air as to why dog go certain ways i dont know that . but i will not try to come up with a bs story as to why i think they do this or that , each has a reason why if we could just ask the dogs why they do it would be great .il keep reading and learning my self