Fisher influence on Bobcats

[Ker_man]

Does anyone think the presence of fishers will influence the way a local bobcat population will run. By this I mean are cats living with fishers less likely to tree. I'm just going by what seems to be an increased number of cats being bayed up in the northeast where years ago it seems like more were treeing. Could it be that fishers catch young cats that tree and so only the runners are reproducing? Terry

[david]

Ker man, here is some stuff written in 2009 and then last August. as stated, it is just theory:

2009:I also have noticed that areas that are trapped heavily for fisher will have a higher concentration of smaller bobcat tracks. I am starting to beleive that fisher are the reason our cats dont tree. I have talked to those who say they used to climb trees alot more many years ago. Then came the high fisher populations. They are ruthless and gifted killers. Think about it. they can run down a squirrel in a tree. What chance would a small bobcat have with climbing a tree? The cats that survive these areas are the ones that hide in a hole behind momma. Natural selection. Those that naturally tree, die. Those that dont, have a chance to reproduce. I have thought of the fact that hunters also kill the bobcats that tree. This might add to the phenomonon, but my guess is that hunter influence on the gene pool would be minimal compared to the fisher.


August 2011:
What makes a cat tree is a combination of the bobcats genetic make up and his experience. Nature+nurture. I think we have some areas in the upper midwest where the bobcats have been selectively breeding for a non treeing cat. Or maybe it is a subspecies that at it's base does not tree. Major predators on kittens and young cats here are the fisher, the dominant male bobcat, and the bobcat hunter. For each of them, the cats that climb trees die. The cats that take shelter behind mamma in a hole or tight brush pile live. They repeat the holing behavior as older cats, and live to pass their genes on to the next generation. The climbers in that next litter get eliminated.
This is theory, of course. I cant prove it. But for what ever reason, we have bobcats whose genes tell them not to climb trees. They would rather die than climb.

Today: I might add that within the region, there will be pockets where a higher percentage will tree, and pockets where I have never seen one tree. Keep in mind that I hunted with culls. But they did catch them on the ground if I could get in to some diseased ones.

[Ker_man]

Hi David, nice to hear from you again! thanks for the reply. I can no longer run cats here but listen in on here and to some in the north east that I talk to. Older guys that used to hunt here would have numbers like 30-35-40 in a winter with 7 or 8 bayed up on the ground. Now I hear the total opposite and have been thinking for years that the fisher is the reason.
By the way I am waiting anxiously for your book to be done so I can buy one Terry

[david]

Thank you Terry,
yes, it sure seems like the fisher is the culprit. I wish there was some way to prove it. I know one thing, if I lived with the cats, I would be fisher trapping and guiding other fisher trappers. The highest concentration of bobcats I ever saw in Minnesota were right in the "back yard" of one of the premier trapping families of the state. There was a noticeable absence of fisher and a noticeable absence of large tom bobcats. There were small to medium sized bobcat tracks everywhere you looked.

I think it is ridiculous that fisher can not be shot, but only trapped. They are another fun animal that dogs can run and tree. I wish some one could explain this anti-hunting law to me.

Thanks for the encouragement on the book. I am working on getting an audio CD sampler of the book and some things that would be hard to put in a book, but work well on a CD. Hopefully it will be ready within a month or so.

Is it illegal to hunt bobcats where you are?

[Ker_man]

David, bobcat hunting and trapping was stopped quite a few years ago (15?) when the population was low.The problem is that the woods are full of snares and the accidental catches that are reported, get processed. The cats come back a bit but the snares don't help. It would nice to get a controlled season back.

In your opinion can a small adult bobcat(female) survive fishers even in a hole?
Terry

[david]

In your opinion can a small adult bobcat(female) survive fishers even in a hole?
Terry

I think your guess is as good as mine on that Terry. But here is my guess:

It depends on the size of each animal, and the size of the hole. Some of those fishers do not weigh very much. I never once immagined an adult bobcat in danger from a fisher, but I suppose it is possible. even the smallest adult bobcat in a small hole where the foe would only see teeth and claws would have a heck of a time getting any headway on a bobcat. I know that terriers have killed small bobcats when they could get in on them, I just dont think a fisher would be as dumb as a terrier when it comes to risking their lives for a little taste of bobcat meat. They are lighter than most hunting terriers. They are such excellent hunters that I doubt fishers go hungry for very long.

So my guess is that the only real danger from fishers comes in the highly vulnerable first five months or so of the bobcats life.

That's my guess. That's all it is.

[Rebel3]

Last year while cold-trailing an average sized cat, I came across where the cat and a slightly smaller than average fisher had a squabble and in that instince that cat won the fight.

[blackpaws]

last year while bow hunting i watched a fisher kill 6 squirrels in about 5 minutes. jumping around in a tree like a monkey. killed the squirrels and threw them out of the tree. never once went and ate any of the squirrels it killed. i told anyone i could find that trapped to come in and catch as many as they could. 5 fishers were caught. i also think they have an effect on bear cubs and turkeys. anyone else have any thought on the fishers killing bear cubs right out of the den?

[Ker_man]

Interesting, thanks for the info guys. Reb3 did you get a look at the cat later to see what shape it was in?

A fur trapper/buyer that I used to deal with once told me that the winter coons showing bite marks on the shoulders had been attacked in the dens by fishers and I guess he had seen proof on snow. So if mamma bear was sleeping soundly enough maybe they would go for the cubs.

[Alabama Cathunter]

Would somebody take a picture of a fisher. We dont have any thing down south that we call a fisher. Some body please take a picture so we know what you are talking a bout!

[Steve White]

AC- They look like a very large mink on roids with an attitude to match. Have not weighed many of the ones I have trapped, but would guess most are 10-15lbs. Some tough sob's.

[Ker_man]

AC. they look like a cross between a mink and marten, most are dark, females are about 1/2 the size of the males. They showed up around here I think in the 1970s and the first one I saw was a male that weighed 17 lbs. The males have a peculiar musky smell that is not unpleasant. I believe that they were reintroduced to the New England states to control porcupines.http://fishercatscreech.com/fisher-cat-pictures/

[Dan McDonough]

Here you go AL Cathunter. They are a small version of a wolverine and are killing machines. I read somewhere that wolverines don't build up lactic acid (the stuff that makes you muscles tired). I wonder if the same is true of fishers. If so, you can imagine what that could do for an animal. If you ever watch MMA fights, a smaller guy can beat a larger one if he can wear him out first. Imagine if one of those guys could avoid producing lactic acid. It would be quite an advantage. For those of you who keep up with the UFC, it reminds me of Clay "The Carpenter" Guida. Here is your pic.:

[david]

You might be thinking "well, he dont look so tough, I think I could take him" until you realize that tree behind him was perfectly streight and normal before he decided he wanted the squirrells out of it.

[Steve White]

Dan, that is a good one in that pic! Would be interesting to find out about the lactic acid thing. They sure are some tough critters. I had one once come back to life on me after I thought was dispatched. Saw something in my rearview of the suburban. Looked up and it was the fisher. Let's just say things got real western after that.

For those that don't understand how that happened. We are not allowed to shoot them in this state. Can be trapped, but have to be dispatched by let's say other means.

Hear stories of them climbing into treestands with people every year. Always fun if you have to release one in an incidental catch as well. Never had a problem with it, but could get ugly real fast!!!