black long tails in the usa

[cecil j.]

I`ve hunted in ca./ore./tnn./ky. and from 1957-2004 . In those hunting years behind hunds I`ve hunted an treed-up mtn. lion,black panther,lynxx, bobcat, black pantherxjaggwarre , and another black cat much larger an different than those mentioned here by-me /honestly I can not explain just what they was ? I`ve seen black cats in Ca/Ore./Tn./Ky. and they wern`t following me around accrost the nation/ they was there and allready ther befor I started hunten and come accrost em in hunting experiences I had. I`ve run em at night an of day time hrs and treed em up night an by day . One of the commen denomartors I seen in every instance was livestock/pig hurds, goat hurds right by the liveing area these long tail cats stayed ! I hurd from both goat and hog keepers/something was swipeing their stock on full moon times of each month . I`ve treed em with one dog, with a pair of dogs and with 4 dogs . When ya see one in clear view by day lite up a tree it`s quite thrilling ! I have shot 2 different mtn lions back when ca allowed it and scence then just enjoyed treeing-em . I never shot a black panther an might could of a had oppernuties too!But I didn`t want too and left them too stay alive . BOY`S THEY EXIST and have been around sence befor I was hunten as a 13 yr old . I would never turn my back on any biggame animal and never show fear too one either/ I know it could turn my hunt from good to being the victom . Somehown these solatary crafty long tail critters have done ok around man and adapted . I worry though about a unlucky person un-armed an not thinking about a big cat and the big cat viewing man as part of his food chain if the oppernuity presents it`s-self too the cat ?!I know several diffenent dfg men said jack next time you get the chance take him out and bring him too me for our state dept bioligest too study/he added (some-one is going too get serriously hurt ) and I hurd it on the west coast and in he south in Tn. I believe I did the right thing each time an left em live/ but did I or have others ? Surely I`m not the onlyest one too see em by useing hounds ?

[larry]

been sippin a little too much of granny's cough medicine?

[cecil j.]

been sippin a little too much of granny's cough medicine?

Larry in answer too sippen to much wiskey/ nope and ya know its now 1:40 am here in wa st and guess whats on tv on ch.37 ? The same thing I wrote of but its all over and ton`s of sightings reported-in over time ~? Now what hot shot/ ? I can just see the kind of dogs you must be walkeing behind and the calaber of hunter you must be ! I figured it wouldn~t take by some of ya who don`t know or havent hurd bout such things/ but it was a little hard too see in print and when ya know when your changed your opennion/ that will be ok enoughf ! Like ole Ed Bates use too say/ openions may change but fact remain ! nuff said...jack

[Mike Leonard]

I have had numerous credible account and even pictures sent over the years of the big black cat being caught in the mid and deep south,

I was contacted last year by a newsfirm in England and asked if I would be interested in coming to Britain for a few months and bringing my dogs and seeing if I might be able to capture a large black cat that had been seen and photographed several times. They had worked out the funds to handle this project. Regrettibly time constrains and personal problem prevented me from making the trip. I gave them the names of several others who might take on the project, but to date have noe heard back from Stuart to see if it ever was accomplished. It may have been a hoax but I doubt seriously knowing the conservative nature of the Brits and the British press that they would have raised the funds if there was fairly credible evidence.

Much like the ONZA of Mexico and SA. They do excist, b ut many say they are a hoax as well. Never say never too loud, it may come back to bite you some day.

[dixiejagds]

I rountinely investigate these things all the time for my job. No one has a picture of one. No one. I am not a doubter, but can't back up anything without evidence. Most states have stock protection laws, but no one shoots one for killing of chasing livestock. I will never doubt what someone says, but would like to see something substantial to back it up.

[BEARCLAW]

CECIL,MIKE

THIS IS A GREAT TOPIC AND ONE THAT WILL KEEP YOU UP AROUND THE CAMP FIRE UNTIL THE WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING. NOTHING BETTER THAN LISTENING TO STORIES OF THE PAST AND PRESENT. ESPECIALY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED IT FOR A LIFE TIME.

I MYSELF HAVE NOT SEEN A BLACK LION. BUT I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE. I IMAGINE THAT THEY ARE MORE PRELAVENT IN THE JAGUARS BUT ALSO HAVE HEARD OF SIGHTINGS OF BLACK MTN LIONS. I THINK THAT THEY ARE RARE BUT THEY ARE OUT THEIR JUST LIKE YOUR WHITE PHASED ANIMALS.

I THINK AN ANIMAL THAT IS BORN WITH DIFFERENT COLOR PHASE SUCH AS WHITE OR BLACK IS MORE SUCEPTIBLE TO BEING KILLED WHEN HE OR SHE IS YOUNGER. THESE ANIMALS DONT HAVE THEIR NATURAL COLOR WHICH IS A CAMAFLAGE. THIS CAMAFLAGE HELPS HIDE THEM WHICH ALSO HELPS KEEP THEM ALIVE. THE ANIMALS THAT SURVIVE WITH THIS ODD COLOR PHASE TEND TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO STAY ALIVE. A LITTLE SMARTER, LITTLE STRONGER AND PROBABLY MORE WILL THAN MOST. THIS COMBINATION ALOWS THE ANIMALS TO BE THAT MUCH MORE STEALTHY AND POSSIBLY WHY THEY ARE RARELY SEEN.

ANY KNOWLEDGE OR STORIES IS GREATLY APRECIATED. EVEN THOUGH I HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME DOGGER THEIRS NOT A DAY GOES BY THAT I DONT LEARN SOMETHING NEW. TOO MANY TIMES A WEALTH OF INFO AND ENJOYABLE MEMORIES IS TAKEN AWAY AND NEVER SHARED. I APRECIATE THOSE THAT ARE WILLING TO OFFER THEIR WEALTH OF KNOWLEDE FOR LITTLE OR NO RETURN!

[cecil j.]

I have had numerous credible account and even pictures sent over the years of the big black cat being caught in the mid and deep south,

I was contacted last year by a newsfirm in England and asked if I would be interested in coming to Britain for a few months and bringing my dogs and seeing if I might be able to capture a large black cat that had been seen and photographed several times. They had worked out the funds to handle this project. Regrettibly time constrains and personal problem prevented me from making the trip. I gave them the names of several others who might take on the project, but to date have noe heard back from Stuart to see if it ever was accomplished. It may have been a hoax but I doubt seriously knowing the conservative nature of the Brits and the British press that they would have raised the funds if there was fairly credible evidence.

Much like the ONZA of Mexico and SA. They do excist, b ut many say they are a hoax as well. Never say never too loud, it may come back to bite you some day.

thanks Cause ol Larry ther hurt my feelings a little/ I`d not care too soil myself and with the hunters comunity here and I`d like too be a friend of Larry !? Also, I don`t set out too have anyone think I believe myself too be on the map as a great biggame houndsman or point hunter of coon dogs over time/ I am neither but have been a studient of hounds and hunting and hunters practly all my life . I read stuff here that I learn from an enjoy seeing in print and about new people in my circle as a houndsman who can only look back from now-on at what there was in my life too contenplate and recall and surmize about. Larry is probably an allright guy an just funnen and letten me know hed taken the time too read my tread and though interesting/ it was past his experiences too fathum/ yet . I would tell Larry, if anything I was just lucky enoughf too experience those past happenings and just wanted too pass em along.
jack

[cecil j.]

CECIL,MIKE

THIS IS A GREAT TOPIC AND ONE THAT WILL KEEP YOU UP AROUND THE CAMP FIRE UNTIL THE WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING. NOTHING BETTER THAN LISTENING TO STORIES OF THE PAST AND PRESENT. ESPECIALY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED IT FOR A LIFE TIME.

I MYSELF HAVE NOT SEEN A BLACK LION. BUT I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE. I IMAGINE THAT THEY ARE MORE PRELAVENT IN THE JAGUARS BUT ALSO HAVE HEARD OF SIGHTINGS OF BLACK MTN LIONS. I THINK THAT THEY ARE RARE BUT THEY ARE OUT THEIR JUST LIKE YOUR WHITE PHASED ANIMALS.

I THINK AN ANIMAL THAT IS BORN WITH DIFFERENT COLOR PHASE SUCH AS WHITE OR BLACK IS MORE SUCEPTIBLE TO BEING KILLED WHEN HE OR SHE IS YOUNGER. THESE ANIMALS DONT HAVE THEIR NATURAL COLOR WHICH IS A CAMAFLAGE. THIS CAMAFLAGE HELPS HIDE THEM WHICH ALSO HELPS KEEP THEM ALIVE. THE ANIMALS THAT SURVIVE WITH THIS ODD COLOR PHASE TEND TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO STAY ALIVE. A LITTLE SMARTER, LITTLE STRONGER AND PROBABLY MORE WILL THAN MOST. THIS COMBINATION ALOWS THE ANIMALS TO BE THAT MUCH MORE STEALTHY AND POSSIBLY WHY THEY ARE RARELY SEEN.

ANY KNOWLEDGE OR STORIES IS GREATLY APRECIATED. EVEN THOUGH I HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME DOGGER THEIRS NOT A DAY GOES BY THAT I DONT LEARN SOMETHING NEW. TOO MANY TIMES A WEALTH OF INFO AND ENJOYABLE MEMORIES IS TAKEN AWAY AND NEVER SHARED. I APRECIATE THOSE THAT ARE WILLING TO OFFER THEIR WEALTH OF KNOWLEDE FOR LITTLE OR NO RETURN!

Thank you you said exactly what was in my thinking an convied my real an true feeling much better than I had . On the coloe of black an white being so easelly noticed I agree that of white but of black at night on a panther/ he is stealthed and hides an closes his eyes in the folliage ya dont see him/ but ya see the bending of tree branches as he moves futher up the hardwood tree because he doesn`t like lights on him . In winter when the hardwood leaves are off he seams too takeup a softwood cedar tree and hide in its thickness/but ya detect a movement in it and see the steam from his body or breath emitting out of the thickness of the brushyness of the tree . By day time he takes up a standing dead tree with no bark and perches high up and servayes the forest floor an the dogs at the tree base with interest/ only thing that rattles him is man and man layen his eyes on him up in the tree ! I`ve see em bail out just like a courar and strech-out and land 60-8- ft too the ground an run-off . The biggest thrill was seening on bail out of a slick tree (no bark) and it was on the edge of a slue and the bank droped-off 20-25 ft too the water/ that emeral green eyed crow jet black panther all of a sudden seen me as he took his attention of my 4 dogs below at the tree base/I was free floating in a scanooe hiden under a tarp and that didn`t bother him but my raizeing up with a shotgun too aim at him/exploted his mind through his eyes and he wheeled an flew out of there and landed 40-30 ft maybe out in the wide slue ! He swam so fast Johnny Wizemiller couldnt of stayed up with him.! he crawllend out on the other shoreline bank shouck-off and promptly splitt through a hurd of hoggs/boy did they squeel and scater-off.
I must of went back ther days and night times 6-7 more times that year and run and treed him and allways started him within 200 ft from the same spot he liked too lay in wait for ambush for the pigs. He never treed-up the same tree twice/ like big game usually does, I wounder why that is?
jack

[cecil j.]

I rountinely investigate these things all the time for my job. No one has a picture of one. No one. I am not a doubter, but can't back up anything without evidence. Most states have stock protection laws, but no one shoots one for killing of chasing livestock. I will never doubt what someone says, but would like to see something substantial to back it up.

there is a dfg warden in dover tn. named steve he lives on hwy 79 and on the dover hwy . he told me he had camcorder film sht in day time of one on the wildlife refuage were i hunted an treed em now and then . he wanted the biggame tn state bioligest too get a big one too stydy an he said too me some one is goen too get hurt by em !?he told me hey didn`t know exactly what tese 4 ft high 300 + lbders was ? I told him the one I treed up was not emeral green eyed his eyes was milky baysue in color an didn`t brilliant shine at night/rather was flat an dull lit . I saidhis head was big and wide and his muzzle was pretty wide and his feet was huemongess in spann
but his body was crow jet black like a black panther/just not put too gether like a lepord family/his legs was extra long !

jack

[larry]

Well, I guess all those nice things you had to say about me and my dogs are pretty flattering. Past my experience too. I've seen the monster quest show long before last night, and if you look back this thread has been run before, think I even asked if anyone had seen any of em I personally don't buy it, to many dogs running around out there for someone not to have videoed or photographed what you say you have caught, where are the photo's and video of these critters you have caught???? After the first one, surely you would pack a camera with you in case it happened again??? As for a black strain of mountain lion, not gonna happen.

[TomJr]

When its dark or half light a lion can look black. Also there are alot of people that import exotic "pets". Some of these are black cats (lepards and jaguar). One of those gets loose or is let loose when it gets to big to handle and someone sees it before it either dies or is recaptured/killed. Just one sighting can grow into many as the story is passed around.

I don't think there are any undiscovered large cats running about the US... just not enough places to hide. There are alot of people in woods these days... As an example I see more people in the forest around my home in one day than I would see in a whole month 30 years ago. Most of these people carry cameras or cell phones with cameras so you would think pictures would start poping up if there is realy a population out there.

[briarpatch]

I find it interesting that a veteran houndsman like Mike L., who has hunted many years in many places, has seen NO CREDIBLE evidence yet does not deny the possibility. Perhaps he just wants to keep the thread interesting?? (No offense intended Mike). My personal opinion is that it is possible, but VERY HIGHLY unlikely. I have hunted many years,but never seen an albino coon or squirrel. However, I have seen pictures so I know they exist. I DO NOT BELIEVE BLACK CATS EXIST IN ANYWHERE NEAR THE QUANTITIES SOME OF THESE POSTS WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE AND PROB ABLY NOT AT ALL. I think it likely that people who sincerely believe they have seen one were fooled by shadows, etc.

briarpatch

[cecil j.]

Well, I guess all those nice things you had to say about me and my dogs are pretty flattering. Past my experience too. I've seen the monster quest show long before last night, and if you look back this thread has been run before, think I even asked if anyone had seen any of em I personally don't buy it, to many dogs running around out there for someone not to have videoed or photographed what you say you have caught, where are the photo's and video of these critters you have caught???? After the first one, surely you would pack a camera with you in case it happened again??? As for a black strain of mountain lion, not gonna happen.

too Lary an brierpatch/ Larry I didn`t have a film for nite vission and at night the only thing I seen is the biger limbs in those hardwood trees shaken as the cat moved up higher in em and leaves-on summer time of the year. They close there eyes when ya use a belt lite an a 2 cell flashlight is too soft too see em. They are master hiders in a oak tree in a treeline thickett on a slue ditch at night/your under a canopy of cover-so is he . One night that perticular cat was only up about 12-14 ft off the ground an I still couldn`t see him as he shook an rattled limbs climbing-up and I shined my cajun light on hi all that did was make him bail out right over the top of my 2 redbone hounds an one english dog/ an again I seen a flyen cat shagen-out and off. I`ve see that same cat swim the slue 5 different times on 5 same type turnlooses and 5 trips to the woods after him. I was about 100 yards upstream useing bynoculars too get a real good look and those was daytime hunts/he didn`t want a human too lay eyes on him up in a tree and stayed treed till ya started walking up in the treeline gamepath too go too the tree/out hed go ! I didn`t drive around 4 miles too go into the hog farm property were he an the dogs had goen into/ Walley Eddson`s pigs are good too run ya and mostly I didn`t carry a gun after seen him that first time. I took Raymond Coatney there too see it of the daytime/he did and watched the cat swim and get out on the other shoreline and go on with our 4 dogs on him again and Ray said by golly it is sureenoughf a black panther. He called Walley Eddson and confirmed it. Ray is desiest now he was in his later 60`s back then in the midd 80`s . Ronnie Rice, and his hunten budds run the same cat now an then too and one night we raninto each other as I was comeing back from the tree. He exclaimed he an Jack Bell an Chriss run that same cat sometimes and he even knew the spot my dogs struch each time cas same for Ronnies walker dogs .I later swithched too useing a nit optics biniculars in tn to go too the tree and i could see parts good that wasent covered by leaves but ya couldn`t litr one up an see it/it blended also they a smart they close there eyes so ya can`t see the glow/if they however feel ya got em focused-in/they come out.
jack

[cecil j.]

I rountinely investigate these things all the time for my job. No one has a picture of one. No one. I am not a doubter, but can't back up anything without evidence. Most states have stock protection laws, but no one shoots one for killing of chasing livestock. I will never doubt what someone says, but would like to see something substantial to back it up.

ya got a point an on the one cat out of Knights Landing ca and the tissdale weere area off Eddsons hog farm : I called the state headqts. in sacramento ca not 25 miles away and said he existed/they told me there was no such animals in ca. I told em I`d treed him 3 different time and he exists !They didn`t call me a liear but they refused too let me shoot-it even the the cattlemans assco had a bounty on what ever was take farm animals a pets locally soundring right were I was seeing this black panther. They said he was protected from being killed. I said fine then I`ll tree him you tranqulze him and move him too the zoo or up in the mtns. They rejected my offer flatt-out said would even send a man too tranquelize the critter !? thats the best I can tell ya on the ca black panther. In Tn. howerer the local dfg (steve) was keen too get one and too not get anyone hurt and said he felt they was goen too hurt someone ! Thats were I seen the big black cat a few times and treed him up a few times. My black dog Latch done it no less than 5 times and I hurd that same cat run hunters plum out of the hollow when there dogs got on him/ they was on horseback an another time on foot and he sent em too the hunten riggs/he does ok with just one dog on him but Mr Latch is biggame struck and dets too poppen his jaws and snarrlen when he catches biggame on the ground/the other dogs was just coon dogs and my black dog was a pkc compition higged dominate get solo tree up dog. I was just luck and 1 dog worked for me!
jack

[Cold Track]

I'm not really going to call you on this cecil because I have seen shows about the black panther being in Florida, but didn't you say in another thread that you caught or somebody you know caught a cougar that was 270 lbs.?