Treeing question

[catdogs]

I read somewhere (can't remember exactly where, couldn't find it again)on here a post saying that a dog should tree when it hits the end of the trail. If Mr. cat is plodding along, takes a left and walks a hundred yards and then comes back on his tracks that 100 yards and continues on his way, and the dogs miss that out track on the way in. Would you expect them to tree where the cat turned around? Would that be acceptable? I have seen dogs that will tree where that cat turned around and dogs that won't....

[George Streepy]

The best tree dogs tree where they smell the cat best. They know where it is. I think they can tell the difference between the track and the actual cat. I know it sounds silly but I have seen them put a cat up and stop just short of the tree and lock down. They didn't smell trees or anything, they just knew the cat was up. That is without them being able to see it climb. Those dogs are the ones that always found the cat if it tried to lay down too. Not saying they could always do that, there are times it can take the same dogs 15 or more minutes to get things figured out. But if you watched them they weren't using the track, they were trying to wind the cat.

[BlazeNBrat]

Awww, good question Danielson! Sort of understandable, but more less unexceptable! I've got one of each of them dogs here now. The good track driver would find it again while the other one slick trees HARD! Thats not to say the track driver is a slouch of a tree dog either, she's just more accurate and can wait to tree, when it's accually there! I dont think a dog should tree, and I dont want a dog that trees over a lose, frustration, or competitiveness. IMO

[Dads dogboy]

"But if you watched them they weren't using the track, they were trying to wind the cat."

Very well put Mr. George!

When you get to see one climb, they tend to jump well up on the tree rather than climb from the base as a Coon would do.

Catdogs writes: "If Mr. cat is plodding along, takes a left and walks a hundred yards and then comes back on his tracks that 100 yards and continues on his way,".

Where we hunt what you describe is a favorite Trick for a Bobcat. We have watched on the Garmin, a Cat double back 1/2 mile, right on their original Track. To have a Hound NOT Tree, and be willing to take what appears to be a covered Track would take a Cat Dog!

[catdogs]

I do not expect my dogs to tree on a lose, ever, and they haven't. But in this situation, the trail "ended". One was treeing, but not on a tree, the other was not. He was still looking for the trail. I would expect a good tree dog to only tree when the cat is located, BUT, part of a good locate dog is knowing where the trail ends... I knew something wasn't right, before we ever got there, and we did figure it out, but.....

BTW, there are a few ol' long tails that know that trick too...

[BlazeNBrat]

Where we hunt what you describe is a favorite Trick for a Bobcat. We have watched on the Garmin, a Cat double back 1/2 mile, right on their original Track. To have a Hound NOT Tree, and be willing to take what appears to be a covered Track would take a Cat Dog!

I wished I knew how to post tracks off my garmen. We've had cats double back on just about every race, or take the dogs out, make a loop then come right back on its same track several times, this year especially.

[dwalton]

Cat dogs that are good locating tree dogs tree when the cat goes up, even if they do not know where it is. They will never slick tree. They know the track has ended, not doubled back, not go up and off blow downs, not that the scent ended because of conditions. I seen the best locating cat dog hit a leaning tree that was against a bluff that the cat went up. She was on top of that bluff going out on that track while the rest treed on the leaner. It took one look for her to know that that cat was not there and only minutes for her to have the track going on top. I do not know how they know that a cat is there or not but they do. If you have a dog that slick trees it is not a cat dog and I will bet you that it barks off track and hangs up on bushes barking where there is a lot of scent. To me bobcat dogs only run bobcat I have seen a few that would do good on other game but running other game with a cat dog will set it back. That does not mean you can't tree bobcats with bear, lion or coon dogs but they are not cat dogs to me. If you get a chance go hunt with a top pack of bobcat dogs you will see the difference. Dewey

[SECOND NATURE]

our cats here almost always use that doubling back trick along with circling, walking leaning trees, and running roads,stream, rivers and snowmobile trails they pull every dirty little tricks you can think of and more. I'm sure everyone else on here that cat hunts has seen all there dirty little tricks. I think that's why i like to hunt them most of all the game here.

to answer your question in my own opinion only the dog that slick trees and doesn't run the covered track ( the back tracking cat)would be unacceptable behavior . not saying good dogs never get fooled or screw up the best can and will make mistakes.

I like the layup locating style dogs the competition hunters would call them loose tree dogs i think. the ones that sit back and tree the game where they can smell (wind) the game the best not hug the tree. after all i ain't hunting trees just the game that is in them lol . like dads dog boy said a cat jumps up a tree where a coon runs up it so most of the time with cats there is no scent to tree on with in reach of the dog so they must use there nose and locating ability to find the right tree or the track

[twist]

Nothing worse than a false treeing dog, if not corrected it will only get worse. Some can be corrected other cant. If they cant they need to be sent down the road. Good way to get all the dogs doing this. I have seen great locate and tree dogs be off a tree or two or be on the down wind side up to 30 yards or more. A dog should only tree when the track has ENDED! Andy

[BlazeNBrat]

Catdogs, do you suspect this cat was jumped when he did this, or was this a cold trail? Like was already mentioned, even the best dogs get fooled once in a while. Theres exceptions to every rule I think.

[al baldwin]

I congratulate all hunters who have owned a cat dog that never false treed, Have been lucky to own some that seldom false treed & hunted with others that seldom false treed. But untill i have hunted with a dog for an extended period of time and never saw a false tree, I will have my doughts. Just my experience. Al Baldwin

[Tim Pittman]

Anymore,I try not to use never and allways when it comes to hunting due to all the variables involved.I tend to agree with Al.On the cat doubling back deal-cats do what cats do,to live,to hunt,to down right survive.But if the cat's still moving[regardless of direction]the track has not ended,until they tree,hole or bluff up,and stay put.As Dadsdogboy has written many times,most catdogs are bred for that special purpose,few[even though there's been some great ones]coon bred dogs have the track smarts to consistanly cat catchers or reproducers of cat catchers.Again I'm not useing allways or never on this theory as well,but if I sit back and look at the top cat hunters in the Northwest and throughout California,I see a couple common demonators in the ones that are the most successfull at catching cats in all weather conditions,terrain,virgin or educated cats.#1 the hunter has a wealth of knowledge on the cat and the type of dog it takes to catch him in the condition at hand.#2--some aren't gonna like this--but these men have a good deal of running blood in their dogs[it's not the top end speed,but the track style].I've been acused of idiolizing these guys,to me it's kinda like when I started riding and training cutting horses--I didn't watch Joe Blow,I went straght to Buster Welch and tried to watch his selection and and methods to figure out what made him succesfull[he allready done the homework-why not take advantage of it?]Now years later there are better and better ways to get things done and I wouldn't want to be to closed minded to accept that Boyd Rice[todays most succesfull cowhorse man]has alot to offer--kinda why I'm riding one of his rejects now to figure out what he's doing to acheive the results he's getting.So I kinda of try to look at this catdog deal the sameway,if I lived closer Finney and Carey Clay would get tired of me in a hurry,I pick them guys brain all I could on their selection and breeding of dogs,because they get very few culls anymore for the desired game they hunt--that spells success and lot's of homework,trial and error.It's kinda like dogs for cattle,you can find and there are some really good Border Collies out there[most bred for sheep]but there's some crosses and strains and other breeds that were specifically bred for cattle that all in all have more of the natural tools for the job,than SOME/MOST of the border collies out there.Just all my opinion,allways looking and listening,hopeing to learn something,or be corrected on what I have wrongBuster told me once"the application,is more important than the method,for success"".