Hunter or hound ?

[Rigrat]

Lots of talk about running dog or tree dog on bobcats. My question is, is it as much the style of dog you run as much as it is the ability or skill level of the houndsman hunting those dogs? I know a fine houndsman that catches more cat than I with Jack Russell's. Thanks Jason

[jcathunter]

Jason, I think its half the hunter and half the dog and maybe a little more the hunter. I've seen guys take mediocre dogs and catch a pile of cats and I've also seen guys take top dogs and couldn't catch a cold. That being said, I still want to hunt the style of dog that I want to hunt. I had a running dog cross that I killed a lot of cat with but I did not enjoy hunting the dog because he would not locate or tree. I don't mind helping a dog start a track or trying to help along with the race (although I screw up more than I help) but I do NOT like searching several trees or watching the GPS for a loop and running down there to try and figure out where the cat went up. I don't like walking into a hole only to have a dog pull off a tree or hunting a dog that I don't have confidence in. In summary, I'd say the right hunter will catch cats with a lot of different types, abilities, and styles of dogs but, ultimately, that hunter will also choose the style that fits their needs and that they enjoy hunting.

[1bludawg]

There are a lot of things you can do if you just want to kill cats and rack up numbers but if you want to do it with style and finesse it becomes more difficult.When i was much younger i kinda thought i was showing my dogs how to tree cat and that's true to a certain extent but later in life i realized a well bred hound can make an average hunter look pretty good .

[Rigrat]

Jcathunter, your reply brings up another question I have been pondering on. Is a dog false treeing or slick treeing the dogs breed or the hunters lack of dog handling skills or knowledge to fix the problem?

1bludawg, thanks for the reply. Jason

[mark]

First off the dogs i am referring to were in the 4-8 year age range. But i have been around several of them in my life (none of them were mine ) that it didnt matter who took them to the woods they caught cats and made it look EASY! All you had to know how to do with them is stop the pickup when they barked so they could get off. It was a combination of cat bred dogs for years and hard hunters to get them to that point but they were a pleasure to see on a cat.

[al baldwin]

Mark, my thoughts were, top hounds in 4-8 year old range are going to catch game if hunted & would care less who took them to the woods. My experience has been most false treeing dogs can be improved, probley never completely cured, some just have too much sawdust bred in and best to move on with a new prospect. These are just my experiences& I offer them to new comers, welcome to take or leave. Al

[Dads dogboy]

Rigrat,

You write "My question is, is it as much the style of dog you run as much as it is the ability or skill level of the houndsman hunting those dogs? "

Now staying on Topic and not venturing off into other questions, My answer is that YES the Skill level of the Huntsman/Houndsman handling a Hound will affect the Hounds ability to produce Game.

As has been stated here on BGH in several Threads a Very GOOD Hound in the wrong Hands will soon become an average to sorry Hound; a BROKE Hound will become a Trashy Hound; a Solid Locating Tree Dog may become satisfied with False Treeing if the Track it is pursuing becomes difficult.

The Opposite Scenario can also be TRUE a Top Flite Houndsman/Huntsman can take a Mediocre/Plain Hound and being able to recognize it's faults and correcting these faults as needed, will produce Game!

Skill Trumps Good intentions every time!

This Translates into all Genre's of Hounds and Dogs and all regions of the World where Game is Hunted using Canines!

[al baldwin]

I agree very true, put any hound with a trash runner often, without correcting trash runner & that hound will most likely become a trashy hound. My comment was meant if good clean hounds were hunted by a stranger, without strange dogs, believe most dogs are going to run what they were trained for & tree some game. Al

[jcathunter]

I think DadsDogboy summed it up much better than I ever could. As for false treeing, I haven't seen a dog, in the last several years, that was tree minded enough to tree on the game that was there let alone the game that wasn't As sad as it is, I'm being truthful. The other day, however, one of Georges dogs fell out treed as Rebel and Bug went on. Slim is a registered walker and as good of a tree dog as I've seen but we didn't find the cat in the big cedar. There were tracks leading right to it but we did not look very hard because Bug and Rebel ended up with two trees down the hill and we wanted to get to them. I don't doubt for one second that Slim had a cat there but we didn't confirm it and that is as close to a false tree as I've seen in years. On a side note, Rigrat, I have no doubt you remember Rebel. She's old now but getting behind her has sure reminded me of the style of dogs I like.

[JTG]

95% breeding 5% training. The 5% would be basic obedience training and catching them doing something right and rewarding them.

[merlo_105]

Im gonna have to say more so Houndsmen then dog, I think a good dog can make a good houndsman and I also think a good dog will make a hound hunter look better then he is. But there are guys out there who can pick up dang near any pup and make a dog out of them. The thing about that is these are the guys who always have great dogs and catch alot of game. I know a few of these hunters and its amazing to see what they can do. Goerge Justus is one of these guys. Now good breeding will most likely get you there faster. But a dog has to have a handle so train train train. Nothing worse then hunting with someone who cant control there dogs

[mark]

95% breeding 5% training. The 5% would be basic obedience training and catching them doing something right and rewarding them.

Bingo!.... Im with ya, only thing i would add is hunt the hair off of em.

[twist]

Will have to say in this area the hound handler plays a factor in catching cats some handlers just never really catch on to the game like others do. A goog houndsmem can sure make things easier for the dogs and that makes for more success. Andy

[Jkohnke]

I've seen sorry hunters have good dogs and good hunters struggle with not so good dogs. But there are certain people that have a gift handling animals. I've seen it with all types. It's even in rope horses. I've seen guys take below average rope horses and make them look like a million bucks when the next guy struggles to even ride him. It's the same way with hounds of any type. One thing I've learned you can't put the desire in one and you can't make him hunt. Only God has that power. All a guy can do is keep him in the woods after game and use the switch ,shocker or bird shot when he needs it.

[JTG]

Yes, the trainer makes some difference, but once you reach a certain point, genetics and good breeding practices always wins the day. With a roping horse you can take an average horse with a good trainer and make him look good, but an average horse with a good trainer would not win the NFR. There is nothing a good trainer can do, with a quarter horse, racing against a thoroughbred in the Kentucky derby, no matter how good of a trainer he is. And these trainers would not waste their time with something that has little or no chance of winning because, there time is better spent, when the odds, favor success. They also would not waste time breeding an average animal, because they are looking for naturals who have been bred to perform at very high levels.
When bred right it’s hard to mess them up, it’s something deep down inside them. This week I received a picture of a young hound in MT, as a pup she was introduce to cats for a few weeks and other than sitting down and playing with her, nothing more was done. The new owner knew very little about hounds and did just about everything wrong you can think about, including over feeding her where she was overweight and there she was paws against the tree bawling, and looking at a lion. There was an outfitter who had two hounds in the game and she smoked both of them.