Bobcat & Lion Changes in S. WEST

[slowandeasy]

Figured I'd move this off the other thread and let them continue to beat that to death.



Dewy was that guy you spoke of related to Oley Barney??


I started this topic even though similar to the running dog thread. Just more pertaining to the South West. I would love to be able to say I was a little instrumental in the big changes that have slowly been taking place in the desert country. Also wouldn't mind being able to say to some, I told ya so. Being the 24 KARET ASSHOLE MY BUDDY BIG-N-BLUE CLAIMS I AM.

When I first came to Arizona 22 years ago. I went with a young man who claimed to have hunted with some of the hot shots in the Lion hunting community. We loaded up got to where we were going to hunt. Unloaded mules and I asked are ya ready ta go??? Yes was the answer. I went over to the dog box turned my three dogs loose. Then opened the other side of the box all in one fast swoop and let his four out. Well ya would have thought that kid was gona have a full blown hard attack. What the hell are ya doing we gota get them dogs necked up!!!I I politely said WTF ya talking about. Was informed nobody in this country lets dogs run wild they'll get runnin trash. I told him do what ever ya want with yours, mine hunt for me that's why I feed them. Well all day long all I heard was were gona have some train wreck. Mean while he had to have gotten of his mule A hundred times getting those dogs that were tied together free from all the brush. I laughed and looked back and said ya all don't get off the trails much either do ya. He said na we usually stay on the roads and trails looking for tracks. After a full day of pissin with his dogs. We got back to the truck and he said. Willie I've never waded through deer with dogs all over the place like that. I laughed and said doesn't everyone do it that way. He said hell no. I said to him get yourself a shocking collar that will shock more than one dog and ya can do the same thing. Now 22 years later I probably will have to say that necking dogs together is the process coupling two dogs tightly together by their collars so they can't get through the brush. So their handler could have more control of them while he searched for tracks. So the new comers even know what it is. Now everyone free casts. Go figure. Same with crossing beagles on the hounds. Along with the running dogs. That I also said I thought would be beneficial. Change comes slow here but I believe it is coming. This ought to get it started as I'm tired of typing.



Take care, Willie

[dwalton]

Willie: When I started hunting Colorado 1969 and 1970 most people coupled dogs. Cap gave me a shocker and told me to keep up with and break the young ones from deer. He never hunted them coupled, just one or two young at a time. Most of the old time lion hunters did couple them. Started tracks by finding a track to put them on. Hunting has came a long way, maybe if the local boys would find a track before they cut the dogs lose they maybe wouldn't have as many hard running bobcats. Most box dogs without tying them, they strike and off they go. Dewey

[merlo_105]

Thats pretty interesting SlowandEasy, Just curious what would be the benefit in mixing in Beagle to the hounds. I have done alot of hunting with Beagles on the East coast just wondering what they would add? Better nose and stickier on track? The things you guys do and the way you guys hunt Kudo's to you sounds tuff and fastenating.

[slowandeasy]

Dewey,

The main reason I started this was to point out just how hard people fight change. More so than just the simple necking of hounds. I have been adamant that if a person in one breath can look me in the eye and say they trail two and three day old track. Than in the next breath say how tough it is to run lion. I believe a person can't have it both ways. Plain and simple when you can run something three days old. We are not talking about an animal hard to run. We are talking about an animal that flat out stinks. A person just can't have it both ways.


Now this is where I have said a change in the type of dogs used would be beneficial. In the past I like you expected that every time I turned a hound loose expected to catch what was in front of them. I decided whether to harvest the animal or not. But the dogs were expected to finish. I fully realize that there are dogs capable of running outrageously old tracks. But when this dog also has no idea which direction it is trailing. Nor does it care if it goes back to where the animal was born. I have to say I completely under stand why some don't expect to finish every track. And have asked since coming here do we just want to listen to hound music??? Or are we trying to have dogs that catch game. I am not an antique yet but am getting pretty frugal about wasting steps. And if it is just music. I can hunt up VHS or DVD's and sit my sorry azz in the recliner. Why not change the type hound?? Have something with a reasonably cold nose that has a clue what direction to go. ( Beagle, Running dog, or combination of said.) I know some of the heavy hitters are trying it with some success. And I for one hope to hear other success stories. But believe it aint coming fast.


Take care, Willie

[slowandeasy]

Merlo,

There just tough. Most are hard to break. Some ya can't break they are the only trail hound I have seen. That you could light them up knock them down have them piss them self. And when ya let go of the button get right up and carry on. To get them you had to shock and gain ground to get a leash on them. Those were not keepers but there is middle ground there and when ya have it it's pretty sweet. Them along with the running hounds will and show end of track. It has 100% to do with prey drive. When a trail hound has the desire to put its teeth in what it is chasing (not following) not all but a high percent will show ya where the game is. I know this will come up here too and it should. And yes nose and no quit on track.



Take care, Willie

[mike martell]

Willie

I will relay my story about coupling two trashing hounds together with a four foot leash back in the 70's. I did it and my two ran off like they were shot from a gun and didn't take them long to figure out how they needed to run single file...Here is what come to mind when they dropped from hearing? What the hell am I going to do to find them when they tangle out a mile or so in the brush thickets? Now that is trashy! Maybe it was because one dog was faster than the other? Back then, you could throw a rock farther than a shock system would reach a dog....I have a theory about the two and three day old tracks....Seen some amazing things over the years, just not on a regular basis....We have good trailing compared to many regions in the South and I know what kind of tracks I can't trail. I been thinking about a time when I come hunt with you and the track I rig, I will catch it, Why? Because I wouldn't be that far behind the game. I got to get down and hunt with you and prove these theories! I will check back in when I get back home in a couple of days....

Mike

[dwalton]

Willie: I posted on here a while folk lore Trying to get people to look at what everyone knows about hounds, you you can't tree bobcats in Nevada or and of the deserts, Lion are hard to catch, Running dogs don't tree, bobcats are smart little critters that are hard to tree. ect... Change can only comes when people realize there is a problem and that there may be a easier way. Nose to the ground pounding out a track, yes that works for me I just get tired packing the hammer and stakes to pound in the ground to tell if the dogs are moving. Everybody is an expert, just ask them. I sure you have seen it as I have where a good mule can not keep up with a pack of dogs moving a day or 2 day old lion track. I haven't said to to many people because I just got tired of the fist fights but once I trailed a 9 day on lion That I new it was that old because I trailed it 9 days before and was to far behind it to tree it. Dogs can do far more than people realize. Back tracking I have owned 4 dogs in 50 years of hunting that would not back track a cold track. A lot that would not trail a hot track backwards. I have posted on several times does anyone own a dog that does not back track. Most of the replies were from snow hunters saying there dogs did not, when I put then on a snow track they always go the right way. I have a couple that are good about getting out or coming back to the right end if I don't over lode the track. To many hounds are bred for all the wrong reasons and to few people hunt enough to know the right reason. But what do I know. The older I get the better the stories can be I just can remember all that much anymore. It was not Oley Take care. Dewey

[Dan Edwards]

I will never forget my first day out with 2 pen bred runnin dogs that my buddy was letting me have on trial and then I could buy em if I liked em. Cast 2 dogs, dogs jumped deer, burning the batteries up on the zinger watchin dogs flail around on the ground fall down, get up, run, fall down and squeal and piss themselves, get up and run again. Batteries go completely dead. I catch 2 dogs literally 2 weeks later. They looked like they were gonna die. I called my buddy and said wtf are these things and he just chuckled and said I told you they were tough. I hated them dogs. I didn't want nothing to do with them. Then I got addicted big time to running these coyotes and I found out right away that no other type of dog could do this stuff day after day. I tried every breed of hound and cur I could and NONE of them could hold up. Now I got the right tool for the job even with all their holes. They are piss poor locators, they can be tough to handle at first, they don't bay for shit at times like a good bay dog but man will they go.

Edited to say no I don't think they were running 2 week straight but I tried to catch them dogs every single night and I never went out there once when they were not opening on something. I'm sure it was deer. I finally caught them sleeping in a road ditch on Saturday morning like I said literally 2 weeks after I turned them loose. One of them had blown out his shoulder and the other one had damn near blown out his shoulder. (beep) idiots!

[Nolte]

Dan
You're experience mirrored one of mine. I had a coyote dog on trial where I had to push the dog off the road with the truck into deep snow, then bail out while still moving to tackle the dang dog. That was the end of that little experiment with that dog as she was on a truck back home after I pulled my collars off her. She could sure run though.

[Dan Edwards]

Dan
You're experience mirrored one of mine. I had a coyote dog on trial where I had to push the dog off the road with the truck into deep snow, then bail out while still moving to tackle the dang dog. That was the end of that little experiment with that dog as she was on a truck back home after I pulled my collars off her. She could sure run though.

HAHA! Sounds bout right. Whats hilarious is now that I have been around them and no exactly what I'm dealing with and have a ton more patience every single one of ours literaly handles like a dog gone collie. Hell I don't even own a dog box and I don't tie the sumbitches in the truck except maybe to go in the tavern to eat lunch, drink beer, and tell lies.