pegleg wrote: however my hounds are used to hold or push cattle. they don't "work " cattle like the cattle dogs but they sure help in the right instance. they aren't allowed in the pens or alleys because they cause havoc. but in the right circumstance they are great. the cattle dogs can put a cat or bear up a tree with the best of them. they all pretty much travel with me and know when its their job or not. they are dogs after all. if a dog knows what to do and what not to do its not much of a change to teach them when and when not to.
This is well put and a strong point.
I dont suppose you are a video guy or a camera guy, but I sure would get a kick out of seeing those hounds being used on cattle! Also would love to see those cow dogs on a cat track, bay, tree, or what ever. Even a bear track!
You are one that uses dogs to make a living. Does it ever get old? I just cant imagine that it ever would. But maybe you can give me a dose of realism and pull me out of the dream cloud.
You are blessed.
If you could only have one dog. What would it be? Cow dog?
If you could have three dogs, what would they be? Exactly what breed, and what line, if that matters to you.
Re: Question for pegleg
Re: Question for pegleg
david i'm down to eight dogs. and its quite traumatic! as i'm sure some people who have dealt with me recently could tell you. if i'm old and on my death bed and the dr will only let one dog in. i'd have to hope they could take turns in pairs the hound distracting them while the cow dog was smart enough to step behind the curtain till they left.
i know guys who encourage hounds to trail strays. i don't heres why at a certain point that pup is going to make up his own mind your actually looking for cattle and trail one up. dewey has a point when he said we teach our dogs even when we don't think about it. and in my mind it goes something like this. the hound pup has been sicked on a few rough cows and knows its ok. then your out riding the waters and trails trying to find a lion kill or track to strike from. the pup smells the lion AND everything else thats gone through and isn't quit sure what he's supposed to be doing but wants to run something and he knows the skunk is out as well as a half dozen other scents. so he has to choose between cow or cat and while he's looking at you for a hint you swerve around a tree same as the cow while the cat slipped between the tree and the rock. you just told him your looking for a cow. the draw back to having hounds that have a choice.
my experience has been you don't see hounds used on cattle or the "head dog/bay dog breeds" unless its a rough range to work like really rugged or super brushy, and the cattle tend to be a bit harder to control. my first experience was in cedar break country where it helped but wasn't absolutely necessary on most pastures. maybe it's just those areas tend to have lions so people tend to have hounds too? because i've seen some heelers that where extremely hard. but there is something about a hounds bay that gets everyone's attention.
i have a border collie X pit that has enough grip to silently "on his part" clear any thicket. and i really like him. he's a border in a bullies body wrapped in a borders hide. i don"t know what the chances of repeating that are i'm sure its slim but it sure worked for him. he also works the back of stock really well like a good border should and it's nice he's so balanced, i don't really use the bully types much because they have some problems like many refuse to work the tail and always head which is ok in some circumstances but not what we use them for the most. he has no dog aggression, he is overly protective of the kids but all in all probably a rare dog.
i suppose leopard cur or usually leopard cur X hound is more common but they can slide by unknown as hounds of the high tan color or various others unless they carry the cur coloring. but they are pretty common dual purpose hounds. then there seems to be plenty of heeler hound mixes after that it gets kinda exotic with some crosses. but i have had some very well rounded heeler X hounds that made exceptional bobcat hounds. i do want to point out again that while i have used a lot of cross bred dogs and some of them were great dogs, actually all that made it were. I DO NOT like crossing breeds. and heres why i feel its our responsibility to make a reasonable effort that any dogs we reproduce have a good shot at being useful adults and if given a decent shot would fit a job. the problem with crossing is it's not as easy or clearly defined how those pups will turn out or what percentage will. so if you produce twelve pups to get one useful dog your on the wrong track.
for example my border bully what did the rest turn out like? i don't know but think about this what if a quarter or more had a bully in a borders body? what if they didn't handle as well or are somewhat dog aggressive? you see not many of those possible combinations really would improve either parent breed for most owners it would be best to either choose a well bred bully or a border that you knew would mature like you wanted. i will take a chance on a mixed pup if i know the parents and can see something in the pup or if i think the cross has a good chance of turning out. one of the worst crosses i ever dealt with was a leopard akc bloodhound cross a guy made. i ended up with two of them and knew a third. really striking looking dogs and that was were it ended. big well built hounds with chocolate and brown splotches and a few black splotches on one. but they were slow mean, growly , wouldn't pack , real possessive. and poor on the tree if they would tree. did some of them turn out useful? i don't know but i know three that absolutely didn't.
i don't take many pictures and sure don't have any film. i know i have more pictures of heelers on game then hounds on cattle though it just doesn't seem like something to take a picture of. but maybe i can explain it better anyway. mules and horses tend to work at different speeds and some can do anything fairly well. but a hot bred quarter horse in bad country is deadly. imo. and i'm sure plenty bgh members have either had one roll them down a rock covered slope, tip em over a lip, or watched it happen to a friend or family member its usually ugly. its really hard to turn cattle in some terrain. if one breaks up a deer trail along a canyon you can't do anything but follow until you top out then try and turn them in what may only be a narrow ridge top. one dog sitting on that trail stops that from even being a possibility . or if your angry enough and quick you can rope them off the side of the canyon and flip them back to the bottom but it has its own dangers. i'll bet more then a few have been shot and packed out after several attempts at quitting. i know the ambient temperature and the degree of slope has a direct bearing on my patience . probably everyone's. or if theres cattle brushed up in the head of a canyon at a seep you can use a good fast horse and risk it tumbling etc, or a steady horse or a cow bred mule but it can still be dang near impossible to get them all out of the brush and lined out in the right direction. you send a cattle dog and a few hounds up and they clear them out and most of the time they head the right direction if not the cow dog can easily turn them while the hounds keep the pressure on to stay out of the brush. you really only need some basic direction commands and a stop/go command for your hounds to really help your cow dog out. and the whole time your setting down in the bottom safe and solid hazing the rest of the cows down. see the advantage? plus its way less work for you and your horse/mule. and remember lots of cows are moved by kids and wives who we don't really want to expose to unneeded danger.
far as cattle dogs treeing game thats real common most anywhere i've been. exceptions are sheep breed border collies and Australian shepherds seem to have the hunt into them twisted into hold and eye so extensively they don't "hunt" but i haven't ran into many of them in the working world except small sheep farms that don't really need a dog anyway. i'm going off on a tangent here but i truly believe that the Australian shepherd is the hardest breed to find a real quality working dog in and i'm afraid that the borders are going down that path in large numbers do to their popularity as pet dogs, i hope i never see the day that the working border is no more. they where a enormous step up in stock dogs and for quality and dependability are still at the top of the stack depending on your requirements but are always in the short list. back to treeing cattle dogs.. my experience is they tree really well and naturally but also climb like a cat in some cases. oddly i've never seen one climb after a bear in a tree? but lions and bobcats they will go right up with. what normally happens is your cowdog goes with you everywhere so it's pretty natural to learn to hunt and they learn on their own. but first is usually the fun of treeing/baying with the hounds and once they see thats ok they get into it quick. after this they'll show more interest in "helping" on hotter tracks and sight races. but where they really add is in locating in bluffs or seeing cats slipping ahead of the dogs and applying pressure quickly. a cow dog is much more likely to work above a lion and locate visually from above in bluffs which is real effective since the hounds are trailing up and the lion is either on a ledge or behind a screen of brush or rock etc. and isn't easy to see. but from above a cow dog can spot them real easy. then they work down and bark holding the cat and providing a easy reference. i have a picture showing this on my desk actually. the cow dog is standing on a rock staring across the canyon at the cat and the hounds are trailing below her to the cat. i will try and figure out how to copy it and send to you.
i know guys who encourage hounds to trail strays. i don't heres why at a certain point that pup is going to make up his own mind your actually looking for cattle and trail one up. dewey has a point when he said we teach our dogs even when we don't think about it. and in my mind it goes something like this. the hound pup has been sicked on a few rough cows and knows its ok. then your out riding the waters and trails trying to find a lion kill or track to strike from. the pup smells the lion AND everything else thats gone through and isn't quit sure what he's supposed to be doing but wants to run something and he knows the skunk is out as well as a half dozen other scents. so he has to choose between cow or cat and while he's looking at you for a hint you swerve around a tree same as the cow while the cat slipped between the tree and the rock. you just told him your looking for a cow. the draw back to having hounds that have a choice.
my experience has been you don't see hounds used on cattle or the "head dog/bay dog breeds" unless its a rough range to work like really rugged or super brushy, and the cattle tend to be a bit harder to control. my first experience was in cedar break country where it helped but wasn't absolutely necessary on most pastures. maybe it's just those areas tend to have lions so people tend to have hounds too? because i've seen some heelers that where extremely hard. but there is something about a hounds bay that gets everyone's attention.
i have a border collie X pit that has enough grip to silently "on his part" clear any thicket. and i really like him. he's a border in a bullies body wrapped in a borders hide. i don"t know what the chances of repeating that are i'm sure its slim but it sure worked for him. he also works the back of stock really well like a good border should and it's nice he's so balanced, i don't really use the bully types much because they have some problems like many refuse to work the tail and always head which is ok in some circumstances but not what we use them for the most. he has no dog aggression, he is overly protective of the kids but all in all probably a rare dog.
i suppose leopard cur or usually leopard cur X hound is more common but they can slide by unknown as hounds of the high tan color or various others unless they carry the cur coloring. but they are pretty common dual purpose hounds. then there seems to be plenty of heeler hound mixes after that it gets kinda exotic with some crosses. but i have had some very well rounded heeler X hounds that made exceptional bobcat hounds. i do want to point out again that while i have used a lot of cross bred dogs and some of them were great dogs, actually all that made it were. I DO NOT like crossing breeds. and heres why i feel its our responsibility to make a reasonable effort that any dogs we reproduce have a good shot at being useful adults and if given a decent shot would fit a job. the problem with crossing is it's not as easy or clearly defined how those pups will turn out or what percentage will. so if you produce twelve pups to get one useful dog your on the wrong track.
for example my border bully what did the rest turn out like? i don't know but think about this what if a quarter or more had a bully in a borders body? what if they didn't handle as well or are somewhat dog aggressive? you see not many of those possible combinations really would improve either parent breed for most owners it would be best to either choose a well bred bully or a border that you knew would mature like you wanted. i will take a chance on a mixed pup if i know the parents and can see something in the pup or if i think the cross has a good chance of turning out. one of the worst crosses i ever dealt with was a leopard akc bloodhound cross a guy made. i ended up with two of them and knew a third. really striking looking dogs and that was were it ended. big well built hounds with chocolate and brown splotches and a few black splotches on one. but they were slow mean, growly , wouldn't pack , real possessive. and poor on the tree if they would tree. did some of them turn out useful? i don't know but i know three that absolutely didn't.
i don't take many pictures and sure don't have any film. i know i have more pictures of heelers on game then hounds on cattle though it just doesn't seem like something to take a picture of. but maybe i can explain it better anyway. mules and horses tend to work at different speeds and some can do anything fairly well. but a hot bred quarter horse in bad country is deadly. imo. and i'm sure plenty bgh members have either had one roll them down a rock covered slope, tip em over a lip, or watched it happen to a friend or family member its usually ugly. its really hard to turn cattle in some terrain. if one breaks up a deer trail along a canyon you can't do anything but follow until you top out then try and turn them in what may only be a narrow ridge top. one dog sitting on that trail stops that from even being a possibility . or if your angry enough and quick you can rope them off the side of the canyon and flip them back to the bottom but it has its own dangers. i'll bet more then a few have been shot and packed out after several attempts at quitting. i know the ambient temperature and the degree of slope has a direct bearing on my patience . probably everyone's. or if theres cattle brushed up in the head of a canyon at a seep you can use a good fast horse and risk it tumbling etc, or a steady horse or a cow bred mule but it can still be dang near impossible to get them all out of the brush and lined out in the right direction. you send a cattle dog and a few hounds up and they clear them out and most of the time they head the right direction if not the cow dog can easily turn them while the hounds keep the pressure on to stay out of the brush. you really only need some basic direction commands and a stop/go command for your hounds to really help your cow dog out. and the whole time your setting down in the bottom safe and solid hazing the rest of the cows down. see the advantage? plus its way less work for you and your horse/mule. and remember lots of cows are moved by kids and wives who we don't really want to expose to unneeded danger.
far as cattle dogs treeing game thats real common most anywhere i've been. exceptions are sheep breed border collies and Australian shepherds seem to have the hunt into them twisted into hold and eye so extensively they don't "hunt" but i haven't ran into many of them in the working world except small sheep farms that don't really need a dog anyway. i'm going off on a tangent here but i truly believe that the Australian shepherd is the hardest breed to find a real quality working dog in and i'm afraid that the borders are going down that path in large numbers do to their popularity as pet dogs, i hope i never see the day that the working border is no more. they where a enormous step up in stock dogs and for quality and dependability are still at the top of the stack depending on your requirements but are always in the short list. back to treeing cattle dogs.. my experience is they tree really well and naturally but also climb like a cat in some cases. oddly i've never seen one climb after a bear in a tree? but lions and bobcats they will go right up with. what normally happens is your cowdog goes with you everywhere so it's pretty natural to learn to hunt and they learn on their own. but first is usually the fun of treeing/baying with the hounds and once they see thats ok they get into it quick. after this they'll show more interest in "helping" on hotter tracks and sight races. but where they really add is in locating in bluffs or seeing cats slipping ahead of the dogs and applying pressure quickly. a cow dog is much more likely to work above a lion and locate visually from above in bluffs which is real effective since the hounds are trailing up and the lion is either on a ledge or behind a screen of brush or rock etc. and isn't easy to see. but from above a cow dog can spot them real easy. then they work down and bark holding the cat and providing a easy reference. i have a picture showing this on my desk actually. the cow dog is standing on a rock staring across the canyon at the cat and the hounds are trailing below her to the cat. i will try and figure out how to copy it and send to you.
Re: Question for pegleg
at this point david i have to give you my heartfelt thanks for the pointer on copying the text! that would have all been lost otherwise.
bird dog breeds are usually fairly straight forward and i really enjoy upland bird hunting from horse back . i used to hunt waterfowl in different areas. but thats slightly out side of a mixed pack of dogs real usefulness . i don't think a coon hound treeing down the river from your blind would add much to your success. and a cow dog forced to set in the blind doing nothing but watch the retriever work would probably bite you or the retriever out of jealousy.
so its mostly pointers or multi purpose bird dog types. they tend to do ok but they work best with just cattle dogs you can't have everything after all. with hounds they tend to overlap in non helpful ways. like the bird dog finds the ease and fun of running furred game and doesn't work as thoroughly as they should . they also start pushing to close. some would complain it also develops to wide of hunting but on horse back it hardly really matters to me. the bad is that they are silent and if they go on point while your preoccupied you may have to go back and find them and montezuma quail are terrible with how tight they hold. most desert quail will not hold very tight and the dog may have to work them some before they will hold or after they have been flushed the singles and doubles hold tighter for awhile. and more dogs to flush helps on them the first time but not when your trying to get in range after the flush. and teaching hounds or cow dogs to honor a point is more work and pointless in my mind. back to montezuma quail they can cause this issue and quick. the bird dog is on point the other dogs know it means theres something there. they swing in to see whats going on and step in the middle of the quail and manage to snatch one right in front of your poor bird dogs nose. this ruins a bird dog fairly fast. so you can end up with a bird dog that hunts like a hound no advantage there. then the other dogs quickly learn to mark down birds which if they didn't tend to eat them would be ok but it can be hard to put a soft mouth on a hound. more excessive training that is kinda counter productive. can you see a hound trying that technique on furred and fanged game?
staghounds do merge easily with both cattle dogs and hounds. the issues i've seen is stags grabbing calves but this can be corrected. they do have the ability to trail they just prefer not to and don't have the cold trail instinct or ability of a hound. i think some cow dogs are more prone to trail then most stags. deer and other fast game can be a real issue with some stags others break easier. but a young stag hound scattering off game in front of scent hounds can develop issue in all the dogs. a good kill dog with a few scent hounds can close some bobcat hunts in flatter country quick but you have to stay focused because they may kill a cat and wool it a while then go right back to hunting before you realize the race ended if your busy. also its real hard on hides. also when a hound realizes that his buddy can catch rabbits fairly regular it makes that episode of their life more difficult to grow out of. foxes where a real issue for me at one point. i don't currently have any stags and it's been several years. given the rough terrain here the only real benefit for me might be ending bobcat races once jumped a bit quicker but i have some fairly fast hounds on a jump race now. the other things about my experience with stags some are more sensitive some more stand offish, they tend to tree ok with other dogs. but most can jump like hell so if you have scrub trees like a lot of what we have here you need to expect them dragging game out of the trees. i haven't had one that really climbed but jumpers plenty.
one thing i have noticed but haven't had a lot of chances to experiment with is stags and bears. a stag can trail fairly well or wind scent in the conditions most bears prefer. and a larger portion of bear races occur with the bear in visual range of the hounds. they also have a more substantial bite then what their skull build suggest, a longer winded stag hound or two probably better will stop a run away bear fast. the problem is the ruggedness of some terrain and i've never had them on a really mean bear. but they can catch a bear that is pulling away from scent dogs and let them catch up. my experience was this treed the bear much faster then i would have expected. i don't have a lot to go buy here though. its probably similar to a heeler chewing on a bears backside til he decides to climb. maybe a heeler heavy stag would give better results with more endurance and more rear working tendencies? heelers tend to be more vocal too.
{ if anyone has any experience here i would enjoy hearing about it}
for me to pick three dogs, i can't with out a context.. it really depends on what your doing where your doing it and other things like housing city vrs country. climate. this is why we have so many types of dogs and so many breeds in each type.
i would put the Australian kelpie at number one with the only provision being i had enough work of any type to keep it happy. after that it gets vague. i like all good dogs. one of my all time favorites was a super gamey smooth fox terrier. he fit right in with any job and was a specialist at catching rabbits he actual out caught full size stags and quicker too. he could catch about anything. he was a bit out classed in killing though. but smart enough to know it. so he would cruise behind something and as soon as he knew a bigger dog would be able to get there soon enough he would bite scrunch is eyes shut and fold his legs and start shaking his head. he wouldn't grab a bear or lion ever. but did bay several badgers and loved nipping cows. i don't like dumb dogs, hard headed, long coated, dog fighters,pointless designer breeds, or breeds with inbred health problems or untrustworthy.
i figure you probably really wanted to know about hounds. so i'll try. i have a problem with this because of how much variation there is in all aspects in the hounds breeds. here comes the tar and feathers but i dislike walkers the most for the very reason they are the most variable breed of hound. it's like the lottery you don't know until its over what you have. i want a smart hound that is easy to work with and interact with, they should be built right to perform their job and have the traits and desire to do that job well and as naturally as possible. i LIKE a nice voice thats clear and with good changes, a dog between 60 -70 lbs and nice long clean limbs. but have had real good dogs much smaller i have some things i'm real demanding of and others not so much. but a decent handle is one i do demand.
bird dog breeds are usually fairly straight forward and i really enjoy upland bird hunting from horse back . i used to hunt waterfowl in different areas. but thats slightly out side of a mixed pack of dogs real usefulness . i don't think a coon hound treeing down the river from your blind would add much to your success. and a cow dog forced to set in the blind doing nothing but watch the retriever work would probably bite you or the retriever out of jealousy.
so its mostly pointers or multi purpose bird dog types. they tend to do ok but they work best with just cattle dogs you can't have everything after all. with hounds they tend to overlap in non helpful ways. like the bird dog finds the ease and fun of running furred game and doesn't work as thoroughly as they should . they also start pushing to close. some would complain it also develops to wide of hunting but on horse back it hardly really matters to me. the bad is that they are silent and if they go on point while your preoccupied you may have to go back and find them and montezuma quail are terrible with how tight they hold. most desert quail will not hold very tight and the dog may have to work them some before they will hold or after they have been flushed the singles and doubles hold tighter for awhile. and more dogs to flush helps on them the first time but not when your trying to get in range after the flush. and teaching hounds or cow dogs to honor a point is more work and pointless in my mind. back to montezuma quail they can cause this issue and quick. the bird dog is on point the other dogs know it means theres something there. they swing in to see whats going on and step in the middle of the quail and manage to snatch one right in front of your poor bird dogs nose. this ruins a bird dog fairly fast. so you can end up with a bird dog that hunts like a hound no advantage there. then the other dogs quickly learn to mark down birds which if they didn't tend to eat them would be ok but it can be hard to put a soft mouth on a hound. more excessive training that is kinda counter productive. can you see a hound trying that technique on furred and fanged game?
staghounds do merge easily with both cattle dogs and hounds. the issues i've seen is stags grabbing calves but this can be corrected. they do have the ability to trail they just prefer not to and don't have the cold trail instinct or ability of a hound. i think some cow dogs are more prone to trail then most stags. deer and other fast game can be a real issue with some stags others break easier. but a young stag hound scattering off game in front of scent hounds can develop issue in all the dogs. a good kill dog with a few scent hounds can close some bobcat hunts in flatter country quick but you have to stay focused because they may kill a cat and wool it a while then go right back to hunting before you realize the race ended if your busy. also its real hard on hides. also when a hound realizes that his buddy can catch rabbits fairly regular it makes that episode of their life more difficult to grow out of. foxes where a real issue for me at one point. i don't currently have any stags and it's been several years. given the rough terrain here the only real benefit for me might be ending bobcat races once jumped a bit quicker but i have some fairly fast hounds on a jump race now. the other things about my experience with stags some are more sensitive some more stand offish, they tend to tree ok with other dogs. but most can jump like hell so if you have scrub trees like a lot of what we have here you need to expect them dragging game out of the trees. i haven't had one that really climbed but jumpers plenty.
one thing i have noticed but haven't had a lot of chances to experiment with is stags and bears. a stag can trail fairly well or wind scent in the conditions most bears prefer. and a larger portion of bear races occur with the bear in visual range of the hounds. they also have a more substantial bite then what their skull build suggest, a longer winded stag hound or two probably better will stop a run away bear fast. the problem is the ruggedness of some terrain and i've never had them on a really mean bear. but they can catch a bear that is pulling away from scent dogs and let them catch up. my experience was this treed the bear much faster then i would have expected. i don't have a lot to go buy here though. its probably similar to a heeler chewing on a bears backside til he decides to climb. maybe a heeler heavy stag would give better results with more endurance and more rear working tendencies? heelers tend to be more vocal too.
{ if anyone has any experience here i would enjoy hearing about it}
for me to pick three dogs, i can't with out a context.. it really depends on what your doing where your doing it and other things like housing city vrs country. climate. this is why we have so many types of dogs and so many breeds in each type.
i would put the Australian kelpie at number one with the only provision being i had enough work of any type to keep it happy. after that it gets vague. i like all good dogs. one of my all time favorites was a super gamey smooth fox terrier. he fit right in with any job and was a specialist at catching rabbits he actual out caught full size stags and quicker too. he could catch about anything. he was a bit out classed in killing though. but smart enough to know it. so he would cruise behind something and as soon as he knew a bigger dog would be able to get there soon enough he would bite scrunch is eyes shut and fold his legs and start shaking his head. he wouldn't grab a bear or lion ever. but did bay several badgers and loved nipping cows. i don't like dumb dogs, hard headed, long coated, dog fighters,pointless designer breeds, or breeds with inbred health problems or untrustworthy.
i figure you probably really wanted to know about hounds. so i'll try. i have a problem with this because of how much variation there is in all aspects in the hounds breeds. here comes the tar and feathers but i dislike walkers the most for the very reason they are the most variable breed of hound. it's like the lottery you don't know until its over what you have. i want a smart hound that is easy to work with and interact with, they should be built right to perform their job and have the traits and desire to do that job well and as naturally as possible. i LIKE a nice voice thats clear and with good changes, a dog between 60 -70 lbs and nice long clean limbs. but have had real good dogs much smaller i have some things i'm real demanding of and others not so much. but a decent handle is one i do demand.
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Grzyadms4x4
- Open Mouth
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Re: Re: Question for pegleg
Thanks for sharing that Pegleg. I've been lurking and reading all the back and forths of all these Posts of Davids, Mikes, Dewey and yours and there is a wealth of insight into dogs and hunting being shared here and I've really enjoyed reading it. Thanks to all of you that have posted.
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bearsnva
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- Location: Virginia
Re: Re: Question for pegleg
Anybody that has kept up with these posts and hasn't learned quite a lot from these posts just isn't listening! Grzyadams4x4 is %100 correct. Great posts and knowledge. Thanks to David, Mike, Pegleg and Dewey and everyone else that has kept this post above board and civil. Many great thoughts and insights given that you won't find in any single book I have ever read.
Re: Re: Question for pegleg
thank you guys. i really dislike some of the bs that happens and i know it keeps people from discussing some of the more interesting things we experience with our dogs.
Re: Question for pegleg
Pegleg, I gotta say that has to be one of the most fascinating posts I ever read. Wow. I dont even know what to say, except I gotta tell a couple people I know of to read this. It will blow their minds.
A couple places had me rolling man, you paint some pretty good pictures. I guess you dont need a camera. Get busy on that book. I would be the first to buy a copy. I have never witnessed anyone who understood so many different working and hunting breeds to that deapth, and used them together in a freaking pack. That is just wild. You need to do a reality show. You would have dog lovers from every angle watching intently.
A couple places had me rolling man, you paint some pretty good pictures. I guess you dont need a camera. Get busy on that book. I would be the first to buy a copy. I have never witnessed anyone who understood so many different working and hunting breeds to that deapth, and used them together in a freaking pack. That is just wild. You need to do a reality show. You would have dog lovers from every angle watching intently.
Re: Question for pegleg
I would pay good money for a copy of that photo of the cattle dog gazing down on the lion hunt planing his strategy. That is too much.
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scrubrunner
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Re: Re: Question for pegleg
Great post Pegleg, I'm with David I want a copy of the book. Get to writing!
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Grzyadms4x4
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Re: Re: Question for pegleg
A book would be great but we should at least pool some money together and get him a go pro camera. If you'll use it. I want to see some of that dog work.
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Dan McDonough
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- Location: Superstition Mountains, AZ
Re: Re: Question for pegleg
Wow, David is right Pegleg, you paint a great picture with words. I recently got a few stags and until yesterday, I had no idea that they would tree. Put another check in their good column. The jumping is not cool but it's just like you said. Those stags are something. I'd like to hear more about what you have to say about the Kelpies. I've not getten to spend any time with them. I do know what it's like to have a great terrier though. I'm pretty fond of an old Jagdterrier that is asleep in my couch right now. It's a shame that most people don't get to experience a really good terrier. Let's here about those Kelpies! Thanks.
I am.
Repeal the 19th Amendment.
Repeal the 19th Amendment.
Re: Question for pegleg
you don't have to pay for any pics from me just be patient. i'm not much on the whole getting pics online. i've been informed a few times anyway. dan thats a very nice looking whippet and built better then those show types. the kelpies i've had are great they're tougher then a border and more open minded in their behavior its not all about "eye" even though they do have nearly as much as top borders they aren't all about the heel or griping like the heelers and are far easier to focus. they have been extremely intelligent and willing to learn. they are protective if allowed to be. and most important to me they fly in the face of the old rule if something is allowed its always allowed or banned for ever. they can realize that being allowed to ride in the cab of the work truck doesn't translate to riding in the car. etc. grzly, i have to admit to not being delicate enough with electronics. i have several memory cards from dead phones with pictures on them i haven't figured out how to retrieve. maybe you have some pointers? short of buying duplicate phones i haven't thought of anything. ofcourse its not all my fault. last year "2012" we got some snow. now i expected it to be a little different then a normal day. but my 15 year old mare got one over on me. i'm setting there all bundled up enjoying the change and we had traveled a couple miles in brush and whatnot when we hit a clearing . beautiful white snow not a track in it. started across and her head went down and joints turned to jelly and started staggering in a circle. i was caught off guard for sure, but i started pulling and spurring like hell. didn't make a ounce of difference. so i abandoned ship and watched her crush and scatter gear across that beautiful snow covered clearing. which living in az you know means its to rocky for even our vegetation. i did manage to save my rifle and myself. now i don't know if it makes it better or worse. but i have never had that mare go down ever. she has stumbled once or twice but always calm and collected. i have put far more vertical miles of riding on her then she ever accumulated on level ground. but i suppose i should have let her play in the snow first then gone to hunting. thats one thing i wish i had a picture of it looked like the debris field from a chopper crash.
Re: Question for pegleg
i don't know if this rubbed of from living with hounds and me or is just part of the kelpie genetics. but everyone i had was death to barn cats. i had several that if told would leave the cats alone. two that figured unless you specifically told them a cat was out of bounds would kill it. but once you said no that cat was ok . how they remember all those cats i'm not sure. i know i couldn't and any time we went to help someone who i knew had cats i had to keep the dog updated. the problem is they are quick and silent. rarely do they miss. they will set and watch a cat until they know it can't reach safety then they go. i have a cousin who lives in a line camp who has three or so that are pretty much his only company. he says they're more trustworthy then his ex wife. i don't doubt that but she was great to look at.
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Dan McDonough
- Open Mouth
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: AZ
- Location: Superstition Mountains, AZ
Re: Re: Question for pegleg
That must have been Mikey or one of his brothers you saw. That's a cool dog and I'm having a blast with him. I'm thinking I'm going to slip some Jagdterrier into that stuff to give them a better coat and some thicker skin. I wish I could just put 1/4 jagd. in there but I don't know anyone who has already done it so I'll have to put up with the first crosses not having the super speed. They be fast enough for most things but not like the 3/4 dogs will. I've been thinking about making those for 14 years now.
If I had to strike out on my own and survive, I like my Leopars but I would wan't Vicki or Tommy with me, but until then I got a yard full!!
I'm going to try and find some Kelpies around here if I can and go have a look at them.
If I had to strike out on my own and survive, I like my Leopars but I would wan't Vicki or Tommy with me, but until then I got a yard full!!
I'm going to try and find some Kelpies around here if I can and go have a look at them.
I am.
Repeal the 19th Amendment.
Repeal the 19th Amendment.
Re: Re: Question for pegleg
Pegleg thanks for sharing you sure can tell when a mans been there and done that. Dewey