you dirt hunters, a question

[funstuff]

i get humbled once every year when no snow and dry conditions make it like the desert in an area i hunt. so, do your dogs that continually succeed do better with a lose, or does that nose have more to do with it? we made it to the cliffs/rocks outcrops, and then poof, just like a short tail - gone. still a great day.

and when you have that lose, how is it best to help try and locate the track again? i walked alot of big circles around the area, but could not get the dogs to pick it up.

thanks, and have fun.

[dwalton]

Track style has everything to do with it. Did your dogs trail the bobcat to the rocks and bluffs or did you run it there? The bobcat [ if that was what you were running not a lion] probably never left the rock pile or bluffs. Unless your dogs drove him to the rocks it would be hard for them to locate him. A lot of bobcats lay up in places like that and was there a long time before the dogs got there. Dewey

[funstuff]

it was a cat. we started it on a rabbit kill, and found one track in the mud. they worked it out pretty quick, and watching on the gps, they really picked up the speed about 500 yrds out. i am pretty sure it was jumped, as it lined out and went to the cliffy area. this is pretty normal for this area, and we have caught here before, just been awhile since the cat pop has come up after all the trappers were in the area. the dogs know to circle, check the back trail some after a long lose, and work for the track, they are driven. the cats do leave the cliffs and head to the next ones, each area is about the size of 3 football fields.

i dont hunt these conditions much as it doesnt work out that way here, usually snow. i know that dogs that catch, catch. and we do catch most of the track we start. it is just when we have the "desert" conditions that i see the holes in the dogs, and wonder more about the dogs from the drier areas and what you as a hunter do to train or encourage them to do differently.

thanks

[twist]

If the track is not blistering hot you will not be able to keep your hounds on it in thoughs conditions in montana. If it could be done consistantly here we would be doing it. Nothing wrong with your hounds. Sure dont hurt to try in conditions like that as one can get lucky. Anyone wanting to come show you how its done invite them with open arms and if thier dogs catch consistant in thoughs conditions buy them up. Andy

[pegleg]

i'll be told why i am wrong i am sure but here is my take on dry ground bobcat. if its dry but flat and has some brush cover you can catch them with speed and by flustering them. if its dry and still fairly level no huge boulder fields or bluffs etc. you can catch if you can trail them to a jump or bump them up. but if it's dry and you have big rocks and ravines and bluffs the cat will probably smoke you. my worst case is a hot track with the cat running and he reaches this type of area . the dogs are running hot scent and then it vanishes they're excited and looking for the cat itself but the cat is skipping through a area they can barely travel and often above their heads plus he is gaining alot of ground and time. the dogs have to calm down and start thinking and checking for weaker scent and looking up but mostly just to get their nose up there. then they have to be able to make good choices on wisp of scent. thats alot to expect from any dog or pack. plus it causes some dogs to develop faults. but besides all that it gives the cat a chance to get somewhere safe and relax or completely out of that area. but i believe most cases the cats probably still right close just not in sight or scent range. once in a awhile you will land a locating hound who will shine and they spend more time on top of stuff then on the ground and they just know or learn how to do it. i have hoisted alot of dogs onto ledges or rocks and it works once in awhile but once one really gets it, those areas aren't a complete loss. but still slim. bobcat scent doesn't last long in dry conditions and you have to work with that fact. some brush types seem to hold scent better but bone dry dirt is hard. i think most cats are caught off some form or combination of body scent then are actually trailed. watch a hound that has run both lion and bobcat in dry conditions and their style is obviously different.

[funstuff]

i agree, our dry conditions here are tough. i go anyway, fortune does shine on my potlickers occassionally .

never really thought about all the difference in the dry conditions pegleg. after thinking about it in those terms i can see why our trees and bays in some areas have worked out better. guess i'll pay a bit more attention to brush and grass materials in the areas now.

thanks for the info, always something to think about when chasing the short-tail.

[twist]

Funstuff, could you share some photos for us all also what hounds are you running. Andy

[funstuff]

I got the male from you twist. He has been a great dog, and we have a ALOT of great miles, believe he turns 8 this January. Has a good nose, track speed, silent on track until hot or jumped, and just loves to go. We have had a ton of fun over the years.

The female is a blue tick, blue frost bred out of southern Missouri I believe. Great nose, track minded, can be a bit slow, but she is really coming along and making me happy. This is her second season with me, she didn't get hunted much before me, so a slow start, and is really starting to figure it out. Hopefully the next half dozen cats will speed up the progress a bit more.

Have some pics, but not the whatever is needed to get them on here, computer stuff is not something that I enjoy trying to figure out.

[twist]

Good to hear at least one of my mutts turned out. But for the life of me cant figure out who this is. Please help me out Im getting old lol. Andy

[funstuff]

Its Mack. Over here in the weird metropolis of bozeman. Believe I have sent you a couple pics. Your "mutt" has made me very happy over the years, and hopefully many more.

[twist]

Good to hear from you Mack. I knew you were on the other forum under a different handle didnt know you were over on bgh. Ya that was last yr you sent me some pics. Hows your season going. Was good hete first couple of days and then weather turned to shit. Need more of the white stuff. Andy

[funstuff]

first day followed a cat for about 4 miles, and just as it was getting warmed up the wind decided to go from 5 to 35 in about 5 min and covered in the track. the dogs had a hard time with it after that, also the temp went to about -40, so headed out.

treed a nice cat on wed after a long 8 mile track, half of which was a race, he did not want to tree until he was pushed out of the brush. dogs really shined, even had someone with me to see there first cat, lotta fun when that happens.

friday we lost the cat in the cliffs, so dry, not sure a wing and a prayer would have helped.

sunday we ran a nasty female lion that will not stay treed or bayed for nothin. she ran the dogs and me ragged in stuff that i will never enter again. the guy with me thought we were going to die, pretty sure he had tears. we followed the goats tracks to find our way out, did get some nice pics of them though.

so a good start. catching up with work so looks like thursday/friday is our next out. this desk stuff gets old quick this time of year. i go no matter the conditions, i dont complain too much if the sun is out on occassion. i agree, a little white stuff would be fantastic. any luck on your end yet?

[twist]

Been to a few trees already. But without the white stuff my dogs just cant get it done consistant. Need all the help I can get for my mutts lol. Pm me your number will send ya some videos and pics. Andy

[Flip]

I'm a fox hunter not a cat hunter but here where I live we have no snow.last year was very dry for us not much rain and fox hunting was a lot different. Dogs learned they had to run closer to the fox to keep the race alive which put more pressure on him and shortened the races.at first dogs were tring to run the track too fast and making looses they shouldn't have. They had to trail more tracks at a slower pace. Kind of like a chest match progressively into a fast race but one dog out of pocket could mess it all up. I still treed lots of fox but the races didn't last long enough to really enjoy them. Once they got one stinking it was game over for the fox.im no cat hunter but will say the cats seemed to be the same way for me.trailing them up to a jumped race was definitely the art of the whole thing but a jumped cat seemed easier to me being dry I have run Bobcats jumped in wet conditions for 2 hours but being dry my dogs needed more scent to push the varmint This year we have had lots of rain so far and the races have been back to normal. I'm just sharing my experiences.as far as rock bluffs I think a good dog will eventually learn there way around or through them and find the track specially if the varmit was jumped going into it . I hunt 9 dogs all together every race and I have some dogs that are good dogs that just struggle in these situations cause they won't leave far enough away to go try and find the track again but others that drift more and know how to go find that track where ever it went. I'm not saying your going to catch them all but just saying dogs learn from experience and the more u hunt them in these bad elements the more they learn I've spent lots of nights scratching my head but that's what drives us to another good hunt

[oneguy828]

Flop, great comments. Conditions effect dogs more than we can put into words. I too have felt that a cat jumped in favorable "dry" conditions seem to be better than anything on a JUMPED race, including snow. Snow seems to put a kink in their that is not present during bare ground conditions.