Best mix bred dogs for big game?

[houndcrazyfool]

The best dogs i have ever hunted with were mixed up bred hounds and ol OBE CORY said teh the best mix was a bluetick/walker and teh second best was a black n tan/walker...

WHat do you guys think is the best mix for big game?

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I have to agree. If you want to catch game, breeding the best to the best regardless of breed will up your odds of getting good dogs.

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

I have learned that, there it is a less chance of getting agood dog out of a great dog bred to a great dog. Because it has to be in their genes genes to be great, not how you made it great. so breeding to a top consistent reproducer that doesn't have to be a great hound itself but perhaps its granddad or brother ect. was a great, is a higher chance. dont mean to start an just my .02 I think a bluetick/walker is best as well.

[bearhntwi]

All the crosses I make are Plott/Bluetick.

[Ike]

I don't have much experience with walker dogs, but a couple years back an old time lion hunter from the south country called me and we talked dogs into the night. He referred to an English dog as a Walker dog, same with Blueticks. He'd run hounds for over fifty years and told me that he like red headed walker type dogs, and in fact had never owned a good black headed walker dog. It's kinda hard for me to believe that a man of those years hadn't had a really good or great black headed walker/english/bluetick in all those years but I didn't argue......

The old timer ask me what colored head my Ryan dog had and I told him red, and he chuckled and that was that.............

I use to kinda laugh about stud dogs that people call reproducers, but paid attention and bred that redbone of mine to eight or ten bitches and none were ever culled to my knowledge. And some of those females were not top hounds by any stretch. Fact is, most of those pups that I kept up with came back with good or great reports from their owners. Therefore, I have reason to believe in the reproducer theory.

That Ike dog came out of Red Bomber who came out of Rusty Red, and they were supposedly pretty good coon dogs. Somebody made the comment on here the other day that a lot of dogs that are good bear dogs would not make good coon dogs. All I know is that Ike dog of mine was never hunted on coons although everything in his history or pedigree was, and he has always been a solid track and tree dog on lions and bears.

But there are lots of those out there I'm told and so a guy just has to breed, raise and hunt what he likes........

ike

[three rivers catahoulas]

Genticly speaking, sometimes crossing two differant breds is a good way to cull out bad traits, if done right. In some line of dogs you will reach your gentic peak, and the only way to keep bad traits from comeing out of the wood work is to out cross. But it was said in the post before, that crossing a good dog with another good dog, up's your chances, and that is vary true. But the one thing I have noticed about that is, you'll get this super jam up dog, that dosen't really pass those traits on to his or her pups, sometimes they will but more times then not, they'll pass the bad traits down that never showed them selves in the adult dog. And thats were I think line breeding comes into play, more so then with two dogs of the same breed. Because alot of the really good lines of dogs out there are bred so tight to begain with, all line breeding or inbreeding does is make more bad traits then good traits come out. I'm a big beliver in cross breeding. If you look at it, all the hounds we hunt today were cross bred dogs at one point, they found what worked and refined it. So with that being said, The best cross I have ever done, that works the best for what I do, is Plott X Catahoula crossed back to eathier another Plott or a Catahoula. I think the most importent thing to look for is strong gentics in both the breeds and fined what works the best for what you do and were you hunt. TMO

[pegleg]

I don't believe "mix-breed" dogs should be promoted. simply because it's a vague and damning name, and with poorly understood or inconsistent outcome of traits. That said the pursuit of HYBRID VIGOR between two similar and thoroughly tested lines may be used in some situations. If the breeders and owners understand how this x performs in all aspects! Almost every modern BREED has been developed from a cross or mixture of multiple breeds with a set and specific percentage of each.
If we as houndsmen spent time studying the genetics of our hounds along with how they affect the physical and performance aspects in a consistent and honest light. I believe the "PUREBRED" hounds developed, would perform much better in a much more predictable way then they currently do. The very best hounds are not of one breed or mix but are from strains developed by a rare and few Houndsmen who devote great time and energy to taking hounds that meet their preferences and requirements then developed them into a family or strain of genetically and phenotypically similar individuals. This takes the hope and guessing out of the breeding, raising or purchasing of hounds.
Think on this if you are interested in a cow dog with strong heeling instincts and a rugged and enduring physical type what would you choose a heeler of known value and type or go in search of some mix which may or may not develop to meet your needs? what about a outstanding cold water retriever? A mixed or established breed. Houndsmen often cut their own throats by passing on the very hounds they want, to buy or breed for those crossbred or mixed hounds that MIGHT develop into what they are searching for. YES I have seen great x-bred dogs but would they breed TRUE?

[African]

I don't believe "mix-breed" dogs should be promoted. simply because it's a vague and damning name, and with poorly understood or inconsistent outcome of traits. That said the pursuit of HYBRID VIGOR between two similar and thoroughly tested lines may be used in some situations. If the breeders and owners understand how this x performs in all aspects! Almost every modern BREED has been developed from a cross or mixture of multiple breeds with a set and specific percentage of each.
If we as houndsmen spent time studying the genetics of our hounds along with how they affect the physical and performance aspects in a consistent and honest light. I believe the "PUREBRED" hounds developed, would perform much better in a much more predictable way then they currently do. The very best hounds are not of one breed or mix but are from strains developed by a rare and few Houndsmen who devote great time and energy to taking hounds that meet their preferences and requirements then developed them into a family or strain of genetically and phenotypically similar individuals. This takes the hope and guessing out of the breeding, raising or purchasing of hounds.
Think on this if you are interested in a cow dog with strong heeling instincts and a rugged and enduring physical type what would you choose a heeler of known value and type or go in search of some mix which may or may not develop to meet your needs? what about a outstanding cold water retriever? A mixed or established breed. Houndsmen often cut their own throats by passing on the very hounds they want, to buy or breed for those crossbred or mixed hounds that MIGHT develop into what they are searching for. YES I have seen great x-bred dogs but would they breed TRUE?

COULDN'T AGREE MORE!

[Mike Leonard]

You know if you don't have registered dogs that can be traced to honest accurate recording without any slipping papers or such you probably could stay in the breed line if you were willing to cull ruthlessly and try ever litter of pups all the way.

But if you just think breeding your walker or bluetick or whatever to another one so you can registered is not cross breeding than you had better do your homework because you are just gambling like the boys that breed old Ready to old Able.


You must breed for performance, cull for performance gain the desired results and then breed along that line carefully with as little outside or outcross as you can and still maintain the health and vigor of your line. Other than that you are just shooting in the dark. Not saying you won't get some good hounds now and then but you won't consistantly produce superior hounds.

A lot of people don't beleive it is possible to get the consistance do you know why?

Because they have never seen it.

And if you are going to breed without those principles you might as well cross that good walker with that good bluetick or what ever ibecasue you will have just as good a chance and maybe better with hybred vigor getting that good dog just don't expect him to produce unless you keep some more of the line and start building on the bloodline.

[Ike]

I couldn't disagree more, cause papered dogs were develop through breeding color to color rather than good dog to good dog. This is the way I look at it, if a cross has some off colored pups and they are culled because of that color then the breeder doesn't have a clue which pups would have made the best dog. In fact, choosing standards by color may well take you away from the best hunting dog rather than toward it. If anybody can prove to me that all or any of the hound breeds we now hunt were developed through hunting ability rather than breeding color to color then lets see the proof..................

ike

[Jeff Eberle]

AS DIFFERENT AS THEY ARE I THINK MIKE & IKE BOTH HAVE A GOOD POINT. WE ALL KNOW THAT PAPERS GET SWITCHED SOMETIMES. AND WHEN A BLOOD LINE GETS POPULAR IT GET IN THE WRONG HANDS AND WILL GO TO SH!T SOMEWHERE DOWN THE LINE AND JUST BECAUSE THE PUPS= $$ LOOK AT THE WHITE CLOUD LINE . AND WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CAMERON HOUNDS IN 5 YEARS? THE JEFF ALLEN BRED ARE GETING SPREAD OUT TOO. SOME GUYS THINK THAT ALL THEY NEED IS ONE OF THEM BIG NAME PUP TO BE BETTER HUNTERS THEN BRED IT TO A BUDDYS DOG AND THIER GOES THE LINE WHAT THEY NEED IS TO KNOW IS THAT PUP CAME FROM THE BEST CROSS MADE ( DOG MAN x DOG HUNTER )

[Mike Leonard]

You are right Jeff money and greed usually ruin the stew. Heck look what's happened to the Cameron dogs already I get complaints routinely it seems these days with guys that are not happy with some of them for various reasons. Now this could be crosses after Cameron and who knows but I have sure had a rash of people complaining about mean Camerons lately.
Same can happen to any line good greif look what happened to the Nance line . they did really well in Wyoming for a long time and then poof the money the fame the pup factory I will breed your bitch for two pups and all this and there are a lot of guys that live right close to the guy in Wyoming but they will call some guy in Utah or California or New Mexico if they want a Nance bred dog that has some real hunting potential becasue it's parent and grand parent had to prove it or die.

I don't beleive the breeds were formed for color I think in the begining the cause was noble and some really great dogs were brought together and breeds were established, but then again color became a big issue. I don't mean just tri colored or reddish colored or black and tan. They had to be blanket backed red-headed and if not find a dog that is and breed to him. If them redbones are a little too light get a real dark cherry red dog with no white points breed to him. If the plott comes buckskin cancel him out and breed to a dark brindle. Regardless of how they hunted. Then lets get a darn bench show so people can see what hounds are suppose to look like. Well while we are there showing these dogs lets runs some drags and maybe have a coon hunt. Heck who wants to listen to old Blue cold trail a coon all night lets make it about how many coons can be treed in the shortest time. Lets not choose those cold trailers lets get them hot running track dogs that can pop up a lot of coon if they really cover the country.

Competition has ruined most of the breeds for the average big game or even country coon hunter. Go to any of the big hunts and all the breeds there will look and act pretty similar except for the over coat they are wearing.

There was a well known hound man from Louisiana that drove into my yard yesterday and all my hounds came running out. He said well you dang sure anin't size or color blind. LOL!
Dogs here from 40 pounds to 90 pounds ranging from black to white.

Heck variety is the spice of life! LOL!

[houndcrazyfool]

i am not thinking of breeding, i was just curious what you guys thought about the subject?

[Dads dogboy]

Mr. Mike,

Dad has always said that you could tell how smart a Man was by how close his thinking was to yours!

After reading your Posts on this thread to Dad, he says that you rank right up there with Aristltle, Plato, Einstein, an Hillary Clinton(the smartest women ever?)!

Seriously, Great Posts that have years of thought and Hounddog expierence behind them. More of us should be reading and listening instead of Talking and writing!

Just our Thoughts

EFC & CJC

[high desert hounds]

There are some great posts in this thread but I would like to add to what mike has said. There are plenty of nance dogs out here in oregon and a few guys breeding them. So why am I scrambling to by a bunch of nance dogs fron utah arizona california? Because these dogs are tried and true. The fact that guys like Mike, Jeff, Steve and others are willing to part with a few litters a year is a blessing for those of us that are late getting into this breed. These guys can not now or ever be blamed for what happens to this nance line of dogs outside of there tight net circle. I hope to raise my own line of nance dogs some day that are worthy of praise, and I for one will always be greatful for those who put in the time before me to make hounds what they are today. Thanks to all of you that are doing it right. James G Moore