More rights gone in Az.

[potlicker]

Just heard about this the other day. My Brother who lives up in God's country, the White Mtns. of Az., was out with his Son, sighting in a rifle. They were on State land, in an old gravel pit, with a high bank as a back stop. While shooting at a target, a fish cop approched, coming down from a hill beside them (no road on hill) and informed them that they were breaking the law. You can no longer target shoot, or off road travel on state land in Az. The fish cop told my Brother, that he could hunt on State land but no recreational shooting, or off road travel. When asked about why he, the fish cop came down from the roadless hill where he was hiding, he said that, that was different! I guess that the laws are just for us common folks, and not for the goverment.
If the housing market was not in the crapper, I would leave Az. in a heart beat, A different fish cop told me that there is a big push to get rid of hound hunting in the state.
Where did all of our rights go? Chris

[liontracker]

Anyone notice the general trend yet?

[Big N' Blue]

Yes Tim , and it is very depressing! I am going to run for public office on the platform that " I reserve the right to offend everyone in the political correct crowd!"
No one should be allowed to vote if they don't own a hound or at least a half dozen guns. They should also be required to hold their liquor in a responsible manner!

[Mike Leonard]

With the economy the way it is Big N Blue you can bet your life I hold my liquor in a responsible manner! Don't want to spill any 40 Creek too expensive! LOL!

[krk hunting]

Potlicker,

If I may I would like to shed some light on what you are talking about. The off road travel is to motorized vehicles and that law has been in place for many years here in AZ and I agree keep your vehicle on the roads if you want to travel off road walk or ride a horse or mule. As for the recreational shooting, what he was implying to was the spent shell cartridges and targets left lying after use, it is now offensible for these items to be left, which I also agree with. Pack it in you should pack it out. Just my 2 cents.

Kevin

[Big Mike]

I agree i dont think they are taking away rights they are just protecting public lands. IN NM state lands recently made it illegally to drive off road to pick up down game which use to be legal to do. I dont agree with it but I do understand it. ATV's have been abusing public lands pretty bad and they are starting to get a little more serious about it.

State lands have some real weird laws in NM and I expect they do in AZ as well. State lands are leased by the Game and fish department. How stupid is that one Gov agency having to Pay a lease price to another Gov agency for the state public hunters to be on statelands?????????? Lots of logic there!!! The lease only applies only to legally licensed hunters during an open season. Otherewise you cant be on state lands at all without the permission of the leasee of that land.

Potlicker unfortunately there aint no place to move to thats any better unless you go to TX where you have to pay to play

[Mike Leonard]

Big Mike,

I agree there has been some terrible mis-use of ATV and off road vehicles in our area. High desert chapparel type envoirments scars easily and doesn't mend itself the erosion only gets worse. Just one person takes off thru the countryside and then everybody follows thinking it is a two track road. I really don't think the guys retreiving the downed game are causing a lot of problem although they do have some impact but more so it is the folks that just want to ride them everyplace and rip thru and over all kinds of sensitive plants and soil. Wood cutters are one of the worse offenders I have seen. They think that a firewood permit gives them an excuse to go back into the trees, cut what they want and snake it out with a fourwheller tearing the heck out of things. I do also see a lot of hunters that are too lazy to walk use them to access areas that are closed to motorized vehicles.

This last spring I was in a very sensitive area that is off limits to motorized vehicles. I was on horseback and I had cut the several day old tracks of a lion. Well it was dry and they soil was pretty sandy and the dogs coul;dn't do much with it, but I could see the track pretty good so I just rode the track out where I could and encouraged the dogs. Many times this really helps your young dogs to understand the process even when they are not getting much scent at all. Well I rode it along for maybe 3/4 of a mile and it turned onto a used road and followed it for 100 yards or so and then went off on the other side. This side was open to vehicles. Well we never got it going but we messed with it for lack of anything better to do and left some horse and hound tracks around.Well I went home but like most lionhunters I laid there in bed that night trying to figure what the lion would do. ( Like we ever really know. LOL!). Anyway I decided i would go right back in there the next morning and see if he came back becasue at times they will for reasons known only to them. Well I ride up to where I cross this track to start with and it looked like there had been a Baja Race going on there. Somebody evidently saw my horse and hound tracks and picked the lion track out of the mix and they decided they would see what was shaking and I mean they rode every inch of the trail they could. Some was too rough for an ATV so they would circle around and take it from another angle and it looked like there were two of them. Well they must have come in there right after I left I decided. I never even bothered looking for the lion again just left out of there. But even though that was months ago and rain and snow and wind has hit that area, and the horse and lion and hound tracks are long gone I am sure you could go there again tomorrow and see the tracks that they left.

Now I see there is plan to close off another 200 plus miles of roads in the Carson Forest and you ask yourself why. The example I gave and many more just like it.

[Waterway]

Do you ever think about ATV ads? They are showing city people how much fun they can have in the great outdoors. So where can they do that other that state and public lands? Their ads for the most part are encouraging people to break the laws protecting these lands to my way of thinking. These are people who are not situated to own or keep horses either.
I tend to strongly resent the things on my hunting turf but I can understand peoples reasons for them to.

Mel

[potlicker]

I know that there is and have been a lot of abuse from people leaving trash, targets shell casings, etc. and we all are having to pay the price for a few that were not raised right. Just wanted to let it be known that I think it's a sad day in the USA, when you can't go out on public land and sight in a gun. I figured that was covered under the 2nd amendment. As for off raod travel, I fully agree with staying on road. That is why I feed four head of mules and horses. What I don't agree with is being told I can't go shoot my gun. as long as I do so in a safe place, and carry my trash out with me. Just had to vent.

[krk hunting]

Potlicker,

Your missing the point. You can, just pick your junk up when you are done.

Kevin

[potlicker]

Potlicker,

Your missing the point. You can, just pick your junk up when you are done.

Kevin

Kevin, thats not what the game warden told my brother. He said NO RECREATIONAL shooting period, or get a ticket.

[pegleg]

that is correct to my understanding of the law no recreational shooting and it as been in place for some time just not usually enforced. I've helped to repair my share of wash outs from some one tearing up the vegetation. the soils are so fragile here that a complete lose of vegetation can take a century for nature to replace itself if it does. it makes range land management hell. It's either worth running cattle on or not. it can't be repaired cheaply enough for most to be able to do it. There are some gov. programs that help a little but you have to decide if you want them and all the special interest groups in their pocket in yours.

[Grzyadms4x4]

I spoke with the AZ land department and there is NO recreational shooting allowed and it has been that way, from what I was told, since 1912. That's when the land was purchased by AZ to be held in a trust. The land can be leased out for various uses including hunting. Now if you are hunting, you are ok anytime. There is no law or reg, from what I was told, that says you can or cannot sight in a rifle on State Trust Land. I think it is a gray area there. IF you are going to hunt those lands, game and fish might ought to be called to find out their opinion on sighting in a rifle.

Here's a link to their map server. You can always check to see if where you want to hunt or shoot is State Trust Land.

http://www.land.state.az.us/alris/trans ... elcome.htm

[TomJr]

It all boils down to tooo many people.... so everyone that moved to AZ in the last 40 years GO home to where you came from!! Just kidding but seriously as the population grows more and more freedoms will be taken away as we lose the open spaces to sprawl.

Those laws that have not been enforced are now being enforced because there are just too many people out there now.

There is also a leash law and people are supposed to keep dogs on leashes even in National forest. Its been on the books for years but only resently has it been enforced in my area. Its still a grey area about hunting so I am waiting for them to tell me that I have to have my dogs on leash while hunting.

I have had a few people call animal control on me when thier dogs attacked mine while on a tree and my dogs faught back. A little blood some hair was pulled before I could get things back under control. The other dog owners were next to usless and most didn't even try to call thier dogs back... The complainers never tell animal control that thier dogs were off leash also... so as soon as I tell them that they back off. But the real problem is TOO many people.

There is a new law about ATV use because it was getting so bad with people just riding them about for fun. Its one thing to use an ATV to get to a place or to haul game out ect. But most are using them to joy ride. And I agree those ADs sure don't help anything, realy legaly there is almost no place to ride ATVs on public lands any more.

[tman308]

Just to try and clear up some of the topics in this discussion.

State land; Under the Arizona Revised Statue is states that no recreational shooting is allowed on state land. The reason it is state land is there is a 99 year lease on the land that doesn't allow any sort of development or improvement. It was designed to maintain open spaces.

Leash Law; Hunting, field trials, and law enforcement functions are exempt from the leash law while engaged in that activity.

Unfortunately we have a lot of uneducated folks in these government offices so each one you talk to gives you their opinion instead of the law.

You can look up the laws by doing a google search for A.R.S or Arizona Revised Statues

Hope that helps