Hound Hunters Worst Enemy

[rich h]

Just got the new addition of Bear Hunting Magazine. Mr. Carpenteri's articles on bear hunting with dogs always left me feeling he's not a dyed-in-the-wool houndsman. But his article this month definitely does not sit well with me. It entitled "Hound Hunters Worst Enemy."

In the article he states there is a minority of houndsmen who are unethical and they will bring the end to all hound hunting...and he goes on to state there is a small number of bear hunting houndsmen that are among the worst. He comes on like he's one of us, so its ok to write about a few isolated incidents caused by unethical dog hunters to make his point.

Truth is there's people in this world who are unethical in all sorts of life's activities. They may be hound hunting and do something that portrays our form of hunting in bad light. The next day they might be bowhunting and do something unethical. It is not the sport it is the individual that's the problem.

If Mr. Carpenteri continues to write for Bear Hunter Magazine, most likely I won't be renewing my subscription. One Kim Zumbo in this world is enough.

[Will M.]

I have not read the article but some times the truth hurts. All you have to do is listen to land owners complain about guys, dogs, and trucks trespassing. Busting locks on gates. Driving around burmed up two tracks. We need to start doing a better job of policing our selves because if we don't do it, The Government will.
Every year once the training season start's here the local hunting forums start to fire up with hound hunter complaints. Unfortunately you and I can do everything possible to steer clear of trouble. But the trouble maker is the one remembered and paint's us all as bad.

[livetohunt]

I would have to say Will is right on. We have the same thing going on out here in the west. All the men and women that are on the fence as far as hunting with hounds they can hear 500 great things that hound hunting does and houndsmen do, But all it takes is 1 or 2 negative things that a hand full of hunters do and we are all branded as outlaws.

[dsodstiks]

same thing here in wv.. alot of ppl are to blind to realize this is what the govt. wants to defeat ourselves. i agree with the two above posts.

[RIFLEMAN]

I'd agree with both points:

1. That guy is an idiot, regardless of whether or not he happens to have a valid point. As you indicate, livetohunt, he typifies the pilgrim mentality if I have ever seen it.
2. Houndsmen are their own worst enemy. Whether by general lawlessness or apathy about the other threats to houndhunting, we will have no one to blame but ourselves when our wonderful pastime is banned.

[Ike]

Consideration of other men is something that is rare on this planet, and it doesn't matter which race you address or on what side of the world or which continent. If a handful of bad apples can truly spoil the bunch then all sports are in jeopardy not just hounding..........

ike

[rich h]

Sure don't expect to be reading about those few "bad apples" in a bear hunting magazine...giving anti's more ammunition by pointing out even so-called houndsmen are writing about the problems.

Doubt like hell Bear Hunting Magazine would have ran a story about the "bad apples" hunting bear over bait. We could mention such things as, since the advent of trail cameras and finding out the big bear are coming in at night...the latest technique involves night vision equipment. Or we could talk about how many bear are wounded and lost by bowhunters. Or the client hunting off a bait who wounded a bear with buckshot at 10:30 at night and got caught. Or we could talk about one of the techniques a few Michigan elk guide's are known to employ...herding elk with ATV's and cornering them and having several clients at one time open fire. Then there's the client on a guided elk hunt they caught last year shooting an elk out the vehicle window. This is just a little of the dirt here in Michigan.

[Nolte]

I have not read the article but some times the truth hurts. All you have to do is listen to land owners complain about guys, dogs, and trucks trespassing. Busting locks on gates. Driving around burmed up two tracks. We need to start doing a better job of policing our selves because if we don't do it, The Government will.

Will, I'm going to have to disagree with you here on this. This stufff might be happenening, but I'd bet that the VAST majority of it is done by Non-Houndsmen. The issue is that we are the most visable so people automatically assume it is us. It wouldn't be real smart for hounders to do these things at all, especially in areas they hunt. It would be like a guy who robs a liquor store that he buys beer at 3 days a week.

From my experience no matter where you hunt there is one person who is rabidly against hound hunters and will go out of his/her way to complain to neighbors and everyone else. They could own 1 acre in the middle of the National Forest, but still think they own the whole thing. I don't worry about those people one bit, because you won't change them. It's the other 99% that you can influence. Let their kids pet the dogs or invite them to walk into a bear tree. That is the stuff that leave impressions,. What we don't want people to see is some unruly hound dogger getting into a shouting matching match with some A-hole. I've been a part of those too, but usually pick my battles and who's watching.

My best advice is to apologize if you're in the wrong. If you're in the wrong and get a ticket just pay it quietly. If you're in the right and someone is trying to get you in a ticket, if they want to press the issue bring the wrath on them for harassement.

[BEAR HUNTER]

I can see both sides of the issue. We do have some idiots in our ranks. Our big problem in Ca isn't so much the publics perception of us (we have a lot of things going for us thanks to the public, such as bear hunting with hounds) it's the lousy Fish and Game wardens out here. The wardens here in Ca feel that all hound hunters are outlaws and need to be arrested. There are many fine houndsmen who have put in countless hours going to meetings etc, trying to show houndsmen in a good light. It's my belief Fish and Game doesn't care. When we can change their perception of us I believe it will go a long ways towards the publics perception.

[2black/tan]

i agree they spend more time looking for loopholes and ways around f/g , then bitch because they get caught. and want someone to come runnin and bail them out..

[Will M.]

Will, I'm going to have to disagree with you here on this. This stufff might be happenening, but I'd bet that the VAST majority of it is done by Non-Houndsmen. The issue is that we are the most visable so people automatically assume it is us. It wouldn't be real smart for hounders to do these things at all, especially in areas they hunt. It would be like a guy who robs a liquor store that he buys beer at 3 days a week.

The jails and prisons are full of stupid people that did stupid things. I agree that we get blaimed for a lot that we have no part of. The groups that I know are all top knotch people and go out of their way to stear clear of trouble.
I have to think that some issues that we get blaimed for have to be from out of state dog runners that come here to train for a week or two and then are gone. They don't care what kind of mess they stirr up and leave behind. They run off other peoples baits, Pack in on anothers groups race and so on. So I don't think trespassing and property damage would worry them much as they are here then gone.
Like you our group is met with open arms and seldom have a problem with anyone as they know the good we do keeping varmit numbers in check. Any way we just need to be on our best while out there as like you say we're the most visible!

[bearsnva]

Will, very good reply!! Here in Va. the National Forest guys ( some of them) were blaming all the torn down gates and rough roads on the hunters till they busted about 15 kids tearing everything up. The more we do to improve our reputation the longer we will hound hunt. AMEN.

[livetohunt]

I dont know how many of you have seen this in Bear Hunting Mag. This is not the full story but its what they had on there web site.

A Hound Hunter’sWorst Enemy
By Stephen D. Carpenteri
I have read several articles lately lamenting the imminent demise of hound hunting in the United States. One author suggested that, as time goes on, fewer people agree with or approve of hound hunting (possibly true) and that politicians tend to lean away from the sport (also true in most cases) and that the usual spooks in the anti-hunting crowd will focus on banning hound hunting because it is a low-participation sport and an easy one to get rid of because even other hunters do not care about it (also likely true).
The Humane Society of the United States has publicly stated that it wants to ban hound hunting in every state. Throw in a few local anti-hunting groups, The Friends of Animals and PETA, and you have a pretty good cross-section of people who want to, and are working hard to, ban hunting with hounds, among other things (like bear hunting). That is a formidable enemy, but there is one that is worse and it is working just as hard to ensure a quick end to the long-held tradition of hound hunting.

[Outlaw 3]

I hate that magazine. What I got out of it was mostly just a bunch of stump huntin with a token mention of hounds.

[rich h]

Livetohunt, I appreciate you posting the first two paragraphs of Carpenteri's lead-in to his Bear Hunter Magazine article. I take it to be CYA for what he then writes: here's a couple direct quotes:

"I risk having my house pelted with dog-dodo for saying this, but in my experience over the last 40 years, it is a small group of hound hunters who are going to put all hound hunters out of business. I have seen first-hand how arrogant, abusive and unforgiving some hound hunters can be...." " this includes beagle hunters after rabbits, and houndmen chasing raccoons, bobcats and, sadly black bears, too."

"Unfortunately, some bear hunters seem to be the worst of the lot when it comes to public relations."

As mentioned in my previous post...a similar article could be written about bow hunters wounding a lot of game that is never recovered...or we could discuss the many confrontations created by bait-sitters claiming "private property rights" any place they plop down a bait on public land. Hell, we even had a double homicide in Michigan back in 1995 in the Sceney, Mi area when a commercial bear baiter initiated a confrontation with a sport hunter on public land. End result, one dead commercial bear baiter and one dead state tropper/client. I'll bet Bear Hunter Magazine would not even consider running the negatives on bait-hunting, but it sure passed their smell test to slam us.