harvest objective bear in UTAH

[bad moon]

i am curious as to the details you are refering to? i assume you are saying the bear ho will be conducted different than the lion ho? if so this could be a good thing i am all ear as to to more information on what you are getting at?

[Yard Dog]

As far as the "killing everything they catch" discusion, Just look at some of the cats that have been taken on the HO units in the past. Why would anyone think that bear HO would be any different? Waiting 8 - 10 years to draw a tag sucks, maybe if houdsmen would quit tripping over themselves to take every Tom, Dick and Harry that drew a tag hunting it would not be so bad. This would help the guides ( which I don't think need any help), but if these people had to start shelling out large sums of $$$ they would think twice before putting in for lion or bear permits when they do not even have dogs... JMO

[Neff]

Very well put Yard Dog.

[Neff]

3 unit trial this time the whole d--n state next time. We all know how the DWR operates.

[mojo]

Totally agree with neff, just like the lion ho and split/ho it all started with acouple of units then whole state! UHA did a good job this year in supporting the views of the houndsmen for the lions. It would sure be nice to get a bigger group of people to come to the RAC meetings and voice their views and opinions. Hopefully we could get a handle on this topic before it does consume the whole state! JMO.

[Bearkiller]

Yeah. It would be aweful if everyone got a chance to hunt instead of just the outfitters and guys who are willing to whore their dogs out to every person they know for a chance to hunt. Screw the people who want to do their own thing with their family and a couple close friends.

[BEvans]

I cant see a H.O. working for the benefit of houndsmen. Yes it does work in other states if your wanting to kill bears. If your wanting to train dogs thats not the case. Utah would have to be one of the best states as far as being able to run our dogs nearly year round. Idaho is an exception but very limited for non residents to show up and go hunting. New Mexico and Arizona are both on quota systems. Once the quota is filled you quit running dogs. One thing to keep in mind is the UDWR is very against houndsmen in the field during the fall because of conflicts with deer and elk hunters. I can almost bet they are not going to let houndsmen have free reign over the mountain trying to fill bear quotas during the fall. There are to many complaints they dont want to deal with. It does suck not to be able to go in the fall bear hunting, the reason it is tuff to be able to go is the UDWR has the number of bear permits cut back so there are less conflicts in the field with other hunters during the fall hunt. Im sure the UDWR would account for this and give enough permits in the spring quotas to fill their numbers. Good chance no hunting for any of us in the fall. One good thing UDWR is proud of is their boar to sow kill ratio. If you look at the statistics since the spring hunts opened they are doing just what they want as far as killing boars. This would dramatically change on a quota system. You guys are right as far as most people are going to want to kill either for the dogs, filling a hunter, or trying to get one before they quota is filled. All of these lower standards on what is being killed exspecially when time is limited. Another thing to keep in mind Utah does not have the bear habitat to reproduce bears like most other states. Other than maybe the Lal Sal and San Juan Utah has some pretty piss poor habitat for bear. The reproducing numbers will be considerably lower than a state that can produce the bear food. New Mexico, Arizona, California, Idaho have good bear food most every year. Just some things to keep in mind. We have got it pretty dang good for training dogs here as long as the game holds up. Non residents lets hear your thoughts and experiences!!!

[Yard Dog]

No disrepect, but I do not believe that to have good time running your dogs (with friends and family) you have to kill a bear. If the choices are going to be between having a kill tag and less opportunity to run or less chance of getting a tag and more opportuntiy to run, I'll take the latter. I can only imagine what a circus these HO units would turn into as far as houndsmen turning in on one another. Conflicts galore! Harvest objective units by nature are a race. How many times have you turned out durring the pursuit season and ended up with mixed up packs? Just think of that and times it by 10.....

[Bearkiller]

I said earlier that if it doesn't change the fall then I don't really care. But this system we have now is a joke. Right now it's benefiting people who aren't feeding dogs and spending ten thousands of dollars raising them. It's either helping outfitters or friends of friends who are lucky enough to draw a tag.

[Neff]

The fact of the matter is that you must have game to be able to chase or kill. I guess if everything gets killed Bears , Lions Ect. we can just all ride around the HO units with our dogs in our boxes looking cool spending more of our money with nothing to chase. (That should be fun). But look out if something does cross we have a tag in our pocket and we shall kill.

[Nolte]

I've never been to Utah, so I don't know what it's like. But I'll give a little rundown of our situation in WI.

Back in the 80s and before bear tags were OTC. More guys, more people eventually dwindled the population down to nill. The season was closed in 85 I believe. After that it went to a draw system. We get July and August to train dogs and then a 28 day season to harvest. If you don't have a tag with you can't drop a dog in the fall season. Generally we get a few tags each fall so we can usually hunt for at least the first 2 weeks, then we'll go hunt with a buddy. Some guys just say screw it, hunt and will pay the ticket if they get caught.

Now our sytem has it's drawbacks, but it actually works out fairly well. I'd like to have a tag more often so I can hunt, but it's also nice to have a good bear population so I can train all summer. I get a lot better dog work in the summer than fall.

I hunted up in the UP of MI a few years back. They give out a LOT more tags. Bear were pretty few and far between, and what ones were there weren't very big. I looked at the weight at some of the registration stations and it was pretty amazing. 90% of bear were little fellas. I'm talking 125lbs or less. Sure you could hunt, but you never felt like you had a chance at a good bear.

I'd suggest about not revamping the entire system if it's already working OK. It's not worth it to hun an extra few weeks or month to then totally scrap the chance of connecting on a good bear when you finally draw a tag.

[HoundDawg]

Unfortunately, this is not a urban legend or myth, this is real. My buddy was in the meeting with the DWR when they talked about doing this and laid their plans out.

My problem with this isn't just the perpetual incompetence of our DWR, because I've grown used to it over the course of my lifetime. It's the one area they have been most consistent.

My problem is kind of what BEvans said. With the exception of a couple of units where bears seem to thrive here in Utah, most of the state is fairly poor habitat and it has literally taken years and years to get a decent bear population here.

You hammer that population and they will not bounce back in a couple of years like deer or elk can do. It will take the course of most of your lifetime for them to recover on most of these units. That is obviously their plan and they would love nothing more.

But it has taken so long around here to get some decent bear numbers, they hammer these bears like they have the lions and I will be dead of old age or close to it before they ever bounce back to where they are now.

But this HO deal for bears is real and they are pushing to make it happen. It is not just internet speculation or chatter. It's coming and it will no doubt have the full support of the SFW and you Utah boys should know what that means!

If you don't know about them by now, you ain't a lion hunter!!

[Bplott]

rac meeting are in dec so get to the rac meetings in your area...

[bad moon]

just curious as to everyones thoughts on pushing for the ho to be done in the month of june following the spring hunt. i would agree to this even if it ment losing our summer training even though i am in favor of as many hunting days as possible. my worry about the ho being done in the fall is your turning loose alot of houndsmen during the peak of camping and hunting season for the general public. as i am sure everybody knows how hard it can be to keep your hounds away from camps when the mountain is crawling in them. last thing we need is a bunch of complaints from people against our sport. seems to me june could eliminate alot of this, besides memorial day weekend camping seems to be slow until the fourth of july through the hunts. the weather is generally cooler and the bears are moving in full swing. anyways just want to hear some others thoughts. as houndsmen we need to come up with the best plan we can and ban togather go to the rac meetings and let them know where we stand and why, they also need to see a benifit in it for them and i think the camp season issue may help with that. the other worry of theres is us hurting the baby bears this time of year. some good testimony of how fast them little buggers hit the tree when they hear the dogs could go along way. jmo but please i want to hear all of your thoughts on how to make this work to benefit us all it would look better if we all showed up to these rac meetings asking for the same thing and act like we have it togather. if we show up and fight amongst ourselves it may just hurt our cause???

[wac and stack]

We won't get a June season, because the dnr does not want any hounds on the mountain when the deer and elk are calving. I don't think we will ever see a full fall hunt because most of the other sportsmen don't want use there when they are hunting. if they would have a hunt when there are no other hunts on them maybe it would work. I do know the dnr is getting alot of pressure from cabin owner and campers in some areas, because the bears are losing there fear of humans, so i believe this is making them make some changes.
I just hope we can keep some what of a bear population in this state, because the bears are all we really have to chase.