dryground lion hunting

Drytrail · Post by **Drytrail** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:37 pm

I agree with snowy river there Ike all they are doing is making thier fingers tierd trying to bring down someone else.And don't worry about me my skin is plenty thick.Just hope you guys that can be helpful will and the ones that are not will just read and enjoy the forum even if they don't agree.Not saying all of us don't have diffrent ideas on how it should go,But the negative comments don't help anything.Lets get this post back on track and lets here your ideas and opinions on this style of hound hunting and leave the cheap shots out,after all it is easy to say something about a guy when it is just over the web.But you may make a big diffrence to a guy if you can help him out with good feedback from everyone.

AZDOGMAN · Post by **AZDOGMAN** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:57 pm

drytrail an idea you might try is dragging roads. Sometimes if the dirt it good we will drag like a roll of chain link on the shoulder of the road. That way you can see tracks better and if you cut a track on top the drag you know its nite old and that should help with your pups.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:19 pm

TomJr · Post by **TomJr** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:54 pm

I don't have much experiance on rigging ect. As I mostly hunt on foot from home. But I have noticed it is very important to be outside as early as you can. Best to start when its barely light enough to see in those dry months and then you will realisticly only have a few hours of decent conditions for the dogs to trail something. Mine are not that cold nosed but we do ok even in middle of the summer when the ground is powder dry. Just having them out for a few hours each morning is enough for me. Gets too hot to be outside running in mid-day during June-August anyhow.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:34 pm

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:29 am

Any thoughts on why ground holds the scent in differnt parts of the country? Moister or lack of?

Nice to see this thread back on the track, hate to see you guys over run a track that bad :lol:

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:40 am

AZDOGMAN · Post by **AZDOGMAN** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:03 pm

scent is a strange thing. I was down in the desert a month or so ago and the first day(monday) we cut a track up in the higher juniper country that someone had already dumped out on. We figured it was a weekend hunter either sat or sun. Trailing conditions were good. On wednesday i was driving slow with the hounds out in front and my strike dog hit a track and started trailing. It was the same spot we cut the track on monday so i walked down there to see what was going on and she was trailing that same track that was at least 3 days old. Then the next day this tom we new was in this one area since he had crossed twice in 2 weeks finaly crossed our drag down in the lower desert country. I went in there thinking it was a done deal and the dogs had a hard time starting it and we didnt end up catching it. I have seen this alot where sometimes it seems you can trail old stuff like your gonna catch it then other times we have stuff over our drag and have trouble with it. I think it really depends on type of dirt and moisture content in the dirt. Or maybe it depends on when the lion took a bath last.

Daniel Tremblay · Post by **Daniel Tremblay** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:44 pm

First things first, this post is not directed to or at anyone. This is simply food for thought about the ability of a dog to pick up on scent left on the ground.

I do not proclaim to be an expect in anything in life, especially not hound hunt as anyone and everyone has probably read my posts. The majority of them are asking for help or advice on hound hunting. I have went a long hound hunting with my fiance's father for two years now and next year will be my first time doing it alone. With that said i am by no means saying i know much of anything about hound hunting.
I also do not consider myself to be an expect when it comes to the Pacific North West salmon species. But i will go so far as to say i know my fair share. As of June 13th 2008. I will be graduating with an Assiocates of Science Degree in Fisheries Technology.
A little about salmon. A salmon is hatched out of a egg that is laid by its mother in a stream that can be located as close to a mile from the ocean or as far over a thousand river miles from the ocean. Such as the Redfish Lake stock of Sockeye Salmon, which is in Idaho. Depending on the Salmon species, some stay in they're natal stream for a couple days to over a year. These amazing fish are able to flow river current to the ocean, spent anywhere from two years to five years (depending on species). Then an "light switches on" in they're head that tells them to swin back to the mouth of the Columbia River from hundres of miles out in the ocean. They are able to find the Columbia and countinue up river for miles and many cases they're natal stream is a tributary of a tributary to the Columbia River. The Redfish Lake stock of Sockeye for example. Come from the ocean, go up the Columbia, then up the Snake river and cont. up many small rivers until they reach Redfish Lake. Many scientist have done many studies on how this is possible. These fish are able to find they're natal streams by SMELL. There are other factors that help them find these streams like magnetic pull and objective orientation, such as land marks and such. If you take into consideration the mass amounts of water that is following into the ocean from thousands of different water sources, it is absolutly amazing they can follow the smallest microscopic trace of scent that they're natal stream is putting into the flow of the Columbia. Other factors makes it ever more amazing such as floads, dams, human waste, drugs, dioxians, pcb's and hundreds or other things being dumped into the Columbia. Now tell me how, with all of these factors it is possible for these fish to do that.

Now take all that into consideration and think about how hard it would be for a hound to pick up on trace of scent left by a lion or bobcat a day or to ago. In the case of the hound in the woods. There are a very small amount of dilution to an aminals scent. Some would be coyote, deer or elk scent in the air. But how is that anything compared to the salmon. In some cases of dry ground hunting and dogs striking off of the box. I personally see it possible, very possible. You never know if that lion has a kill a few hundred yards off of the road. In that case the lion would have left mass amounts of scent in the air and in the ground in that exact spot the kill lies but possibly not on the ground leading up to the kill. A hound could smell a small trace of that amount of scent left over by feeding. Another case could be as simple as a lion walked across the road a day or two ago on dry ground. The scent on the road could not be trackable but what if that lion "went to the bathroom" not to far from the road. This would also leave scent in the air for days that the hound is very capable of smelling. Considering cats cover they droppings, many hounds and people would not pick up on the fact that the ground has been distrubed but that is where the scent is coming from. I dont know for sure since i am not anywhere near an expect on hounds but it seems to me that most hounds would not stop on that spot of distrubed ground where the scent is orginating from but continue on searching for that small trace of scent and not be able to find anything.

These things have been brewing in my head for a while and I figured this post would be perfect to get my thoughts out in the forum. So next time you go to call someone out on claiming they're dogs striked off of the box but couldnt trail the lion or cat. Take this ideas into consideration and dont stop yourself from considering the millions of things that could and do contribute to the ability of a hound to do what it loves to do.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:00 pm

Great stuff, I beleive it all tye's together.

I asked for your ideas because it is of great interest to me and somewhat a mystery how the dogs get so good at it.

I went with a guy training a blood hound for search & rescue a few years back. The track ( layed buy 2 kids for 5 bucks) was three days old. It had snowed a inch since they had got off the bus and walked five miles home. Most of the snow had melted but not all.

I was amazed how this dog walked the track, pulling the handler along. The kids had hung a little toilet paper in the trees every 1/4 mile or so to let the handler know if the dog was still on track.

In places the dog would almost run, I still wonder why the scent was so much better there.
I came away with a new yardstick for measuring how coldnosed a dog was. And a million qustions on the properties of scent.

Nolte · Post by **Nolte** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:51 pm

OK lets not get carried away here.

I've never hunted lions, seen a lion, or even seen a lion track in my life. I did stay at a holiday inn express though. Anyway, I've been in contact with quite a few different guys that hunt lions, or make trips out west to hunt lions. These are guys that hunt harder than your typical hound guy. This is what I've gathered.

Regardless of what you read on the internet or hear in the coffee shop. It's probably a pretty short list of guys that walk to 20 or more different lion trees in a year. I don't know actual numbers but I do know that majority of the time is spent LOOKING for a track to run. So I've got a hard time believing that "rigging lions" is a viable option to get a track to run. When 6 guys hunt 14 straight days and manage to only cut 4 lion tracks (all from a snowmobile I might add), I've got a hard time believing that guys are loading up their dogs on the rig looking for lion tracks to run. Does it happen, sure. Can the dogs smell a lion track/scratch, probably. But I think rigging a lion is more a product of being out there bouncing around than a true method of actually looking for one. IT might be different in places where they are thick or you can't hunt them.

I know the guys in the NW rig for bobcats and do well, but I sure wouldn't want to hinge my success in WI driving around waiting for a cat rig. I know I don't have enough gas money. The majority of dogs can't run a cat track good enough anyways.

Lots of dogs can smell stuff good enough to know it's there, but that is a far cry from being able to finish that track.

mulemanbl · Post by **mulemanbl** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:49 pm

I can see how rigging for lions is viable. Many times guys go out looking for tracks and if that track doesn't cross the road then the guys doesn't know its there. Most canyon roads are in the bottom and how many times has the lion walked parellel to the road without every crossing it? You as the tracker would never know its there. Unless your dogs can smell it and let you know its there. Just my thought

Tim Pittman · Post by **Tim Pittman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:58 pm

Sorry,to be the one differing with u,and I,m lacking in a top notch box dog in my own pack[1old trail and tree female and 3 pups that go from 7-10 months old].MY hunting partner would be glad to show any of the doubters on here how a top notch rig dog works on cats.

Tim Pittman · Post by **Tim Pittman** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:00 pm

Mulemnbl I wish I would have waited U saved me alot of typing.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:27 pm

dryground lion hunting

Ike

Just something to take into consideration