you dirt hunters, a question

[twist]

So what I am understanding is dogs can run. a jumped cat better in a dry enviroment rather than in a moist one! If so please explain your reasoning. Andy

[oneguy828]

I should have said bare, conditions without snow can be good too. I think in cases BETTER and especially on the jumps. Jmo

[dwalton]

For me the key for having dogs do good on bobcats is bare ground hunting. In the dry conditions dogs learn to move the track faster by getting pass the dead spots where there is no scent. Even out here a lot of guys don't hunt in dry conditions, the ones that do you will see a difference in the way the dogs handle the track. Bobs will get away more often in dry conditions by getting ahead when a loose is made and staying ahead, but when damp weather comes the dogs hunted on bare dry ground will look really good if they have it in them. Bared ground hunting or any adverse weather conditions makes a cat dog. That said it just may take a little different type of dog and hunting to make a good bare ground dog.Just my opinion based on thousands of bobcat trees and hunting in several states from wet coast to very dry deserts. If someone believes it can't be done what do you think will show up for them? It is not easy to catch bobcats on dry ground but in can be done in all the places that I have hunted. I have never hunted Montana but if they change the laws I would be there in a heart beat just to see if it could be done. Dewey

[Unreal_tk]

Dewey here is a question I've wondered. Have you ever put in for the Idaho permit and hunted for cats there. Its a unlimited take, so I would think it would be worthwhile considering how much you travel. The quality is much better than your coast range and what not. Makes sense to me!

[Warner5]

Dewey is right about dry training. But be mindful some dogs just arnt mature enough to deal with those conditions be it age, breeding or training. Many good hunters have been into summer cat trees only to see a yearling doe caught. Lol. Dogs can get frustrated and lie to you. Know your dogs and be able to honestly read the difference. John.

[dwalton]

No, I have not for several reasons one the wolves, I know people over there that buy Oregon tags and hunt over here. From what they say the bobcat numbers are far fewer and a lot of the country snows out. The cats are not as good as our eastern cats. As far as the coast I do not hunt our coast range during take season because of the poor quality of the pelts unless I am snowed out in the cascades. I hunted elk in Idaho from '89 to 2005 I saw very few bobcat tracks and sign while I was there. I have a couple of guys that have pups from me and have invited me several times just have not taken the time to hunt when kill season is on for me. If I was going to go that far I would go back to Colorado to hunt bobcats. Dewey

[oneguy828]

I have talked to a few people and i think i am not making the point i was trying to. So, ill try again. Snow can change drastically from 500 feet change in elevation say i start a track at 4500 feet and trail it down in to less snow or a warmer temperature this all changes the conditions of the scent and how the dogs react to it or trail it.. The change in a few degrees of temperature example 31 to 35 can lead from excellent conditons to melted out, drip out track or vice versa and freeze in. Bare ground or a 50 degree track is less apt to these drastic changes. The less the conditions change i believe the better they can trail that is my point twist. There is many folds to each different type of its not so cut and dry as you make it seem at times.

[dwalton]

oneguy828: You are right about change in conditions and temperature. Constant is the best for the dogs to trail in, that said conditions very as to dry, heat, cold and wind .... Which all bring their own problems. We can get some of the best conditions out here to hunt I think any where above freezing,no dew, cloud cover with very little temperature change, and some of the worst in the cascades, wet snow, a high degree of temperature change in a few hours, rain, elevation change so a track runs out of the snow and lots of roads and bluffs. The dogs can only do best they can, sometimes it is up to the hunter to put the dogs in the best way for them to do their best. Dewey

[al baldwin]

There was a time when most cat hunters, self included, hunted year around, yes I have caught cats in the driest part of summer, hunting early mornings & late evening. Have never hunted in Montana, but I believe any place one hunts in dry & bluff conditions as described by the hunter who started this discussion, is going to have a very low catch percentage, no matter who they are. Just my opinion, we all have one. If you only get beat once a year, sure nothing wrong with your dogs. Dewey total agree, dry ground hunting is going to make or break cat dogs. Al

[oneguy828]

I agree, with both statements. Al, I was just pointing out that conditions can be good in bare conditions and poor in snow. Each presents different challenges and the handler plays a role in putting the odds in their favor. I was not specifically referring to the original post.

[twist]

I totally agree cats can bd caught in our dry conditions have done it many times. I call it true luck for these reasons low cat population, and the track is smoking hot. With that said they can be caught in dry bare conditions. But for one to come here and think they are going to strike and run a 12 hour old track is dreaming. I have seen both worlds of cat hunting and have owned several dogs from both worlds. If it could be done with consistancy here other besides me would sure share their pics and videos with us rather than a few that say they do it here and never have nothing but a story. We just dont have the cat population and road system to make it wort one while to hunt that way. Andy

[funstuff]

wow. lots of good information there. i dont get to hunt the dry conditions without snow very often. i have hunted snow so dry that if there were no tracks for the dog to see, they wouldn't have had anything to do.

if i am listening correctly, in good "dry " conditions it forces the dog to move on scent track a little faster? not track right? so this will make the cat move quicker and in a more straight line? therefore pushing it to make a little mistake?

do these conditions also hold that scent better, not as much drift or dispersal?

i appreciate this information, it is very interesting as to how differently conditions vary hunt style. i am a foot hunter, as there really are not much for roads here, plus the views are better from a little higher. if we dont get some moisture soon, i may end up with dirt dogs.

[al baldwin]

Funstuff, no way did I mean to lead anyone to believe a hound can trail a bobcat better in dry conditions. In fact just the opposite, hounds have to work much harder in dry conditions, hounds learn to work with less scent by hunting in dry conditions. I do believe hunting in dry conditions improves a hound/s ability to tree cats once the more idea conditions arrive. Never hunted in conditions like you folks have in Montana winters. I would assume those type temperatures can require a hound to have a good nose to be successful on bobcat. In the winter time here we have warmer rain some days that can make for idea tracking. At times we will get a damp snow witch creates the best tracking I have experienced. Those idea snow days when the cats have moved is when most have those days of several cat being treed. One guy I never even thought about your post when posted my first post on this discussion. Good hunting to One guy & funstuff. Al

[dwalton]

In dry conditions there will be places that there is no scent for 50 to several hundred feet. If you watch your dogs you will see how excited they get when they smell a bobcat, you can get a idea how fresh it is by how excited they get. In dry conditions or any adverse conditions a dog on a fresh track will get excited and hunt faster and go father to get past the dead spots in the track. By hunting in these conditions you will not catch as many bobs but your dogs will learn to work a track with heads up and move it faster not hanging up trying to take the track, track for track. That said some dogs usually running blood have more tendency to do this more often. Dogs that do or learn to run a track this way usually have little trouble treeing the cat after the jump. The adverse is also true if you hunt a dog with dogs that pound the track from track to track it will teach them to pound the track. The problem is most people have is telling which dog in on the track or just running wild like a ADS kid looking like they are getting a lot done but really getting in the way of you catching a cat. When you have snow and have a dog that seems to be out ahead a lot walk the cat track out. The dog tracks should never be over 15 to 20 feet off the cat track. If you have a wide or over running dog especially one that barks off track get rid of him. For me I can put up with a faulty in a dog as long as it adds to me treeing the cat. If the fault takes away from me treeing that cat he is out of here. Dewey

[johnadamhunter]

I have a pretty good example of how the ability to run a track changes within a single race. Tuesday morning I took a young cat dog pup to run rabbits with my neighbor's beagles. One of our races took place at the junction of three different types of terrain. One area was plantation pines about 20 feet tall, thick layer of pine straw on the ground with only a small amount of vegetation (most of which was dead). The second area was fully mature mostly hardwood timber. No under growth or vegetation on the ground. Just dry leaves. The third area was total clearcut only a few years old and not replanted. This area was covered with blackberry briars, weeds, and tall grass, so thick you couldn't stick a butcher knife in it. As the beagles ran the circling rabbit it would leave one area and enter the next. Without exception the dogs could really push the rabbit in the cutover when they entered the pines could only trail and keep the track moving and when they encountered the open hardwood there was never more than 1 or 2 barks until it exited that area and entered one of the adjoining areas. For the record, the race eventually ended in the hardwoods with a lose. Our weather was cloudy so amount of sunlight on the track was not a factor. We were hunting early and there was no temperature change from one area to another and the amount of moisture change was little if any.
I conclude by saying if tracking conditions can change drastically in a small area that is flat and only a change in vegetation. I can only speculate what the tracking conditions would be like in an area that changed elevation, soil type, temperature, moisture, etc.

John Sumrall
I was hunting in south Mississippi.