Best mix bred dogs for big game?

[Dan V]

In nature, animals evolve out of necessity and through adversity. The strong survive and breed. The unsuccesful do not live and do not breed.

We alter evolution by making the decision who gets to breed and who does not. Are we doing it correctly? Some people are and some are not.

Think about this: Does a mountain lion who does not have the natural insticts, abilty and desire to hunt it's own food live long enough to effect the gene pool?...............

How many hounds are allowed to breed because of their color, papers, line or name? The bad decisions are reinforced with dog food and the inferior hounds are allowed to live and keep it going.

If man started breeding mountain lions instead of nature; do you think we could screw it up in several generations and end up with lions who don't want to hunt?

[Dan Edwards]

All that matters to me is if you catch game consistantly. If the hound needs drags and caged critters to to learn to hunt I won't feed them, If they won't catch their own big game by a year I am not interested in keeping them. Breeding needs to be done to better the odds of catching more game with each litter, not to hang a ribbon on the wall or to put a trophy on the mantel. In my opinion ribbon chasers for the most part have taken the hunt out of the hound.

Someday, I'd like to buy you a if you'd drink it.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

"Saltlicks Pacs-A-Lotto Lip" I guess I should have just Called him Nailor II .. lol Pacs is in Norway with his new owner Hans and by the way the Boys Rigging Badger He has the Nose, Grit and Go of his Great Great Grand Sire ..
Just about everything about him Hollars Nailor .. Exp his Structure
KONG is his Pop. And his Mom has Nailor and Pac Man.
His Build and Structure has Changed some sence I sent him over Their.

What a Shame he's a 1/4 Bloodhound LOL

But their was much more to this Cross Breeding that happened .. Pac's Mother is 1/2 Bloodhound and 1/2 Texas Lotto to Nailor/Taylors Pac o Pearl to Pac Man.. His Father is Wondo River Kong goes back to Nailor thru Southern Grace.. When every you breed 2 Walkers no matter how Close in relation your Dealing with a Huge inter related Gene Pool. "Unless your working with a Unrelated Branch Line" Their is no way in Hell you can control where the Genetic Pairs will come from or How many Generations they will run to make Common Pairs .. But this does not Accorded in all the Pups in the litter .. Why ?? That I do not know

But This is my thoughts on this Breeding " Yes I got 3 Different Types of Pups" Nearly Pure Walkers, Nearly Pure Bloodhounds and Pups that Homogenized the 2 Genetics..

I believe this Pup/Hound "Pac's" Received nearly Pure Genetics of Nailor and this is what happened .. Instead of Working with 4/4 of Walker Genetics the Bloodhound Genes Deleted 1/4 of the Walker so I was then working with 3/4 of this Huge Walker Gene Pool .. Then again most all of the Bloodhound Genetics was Kicked "To the Curb" in this one Pup .. Then the First Genetics that Paired were nearly Pure Nail or...

Trates are a different Story I believe they come from the Sire and Dam / But Trates and Genetics may Fight Against each other ... But sometimes Everything Lines up (Moon, Stars, Planets) Genetics/Trates.. And that One Great Hound is Born..

The Draw Back is You have to keep these pups together or very close to Evaluate each Pup.

Their was a Branch that happened in the Walker Lines and I call it the "Lipper-Bozo Branch" which lead to Sackett.-Clover Lines. And they actually remained unrelated a good while .. And When ever these two lines were bred together some really great hounds popped up. Because their Genetics were looking for the First Related Pairing to Just before Bozo-Lipper.. """This is Only From My Studies and Maybe I was Seeing Something Wrong"""

Ah Heck I was just in the "Library" and my pea brain Figured out that Off course every Pup in a littler is different !!! Each and every Egg and Sperm Carries a Different DNA that combine that causes each pup to have Different DNA Make up and their are only a few Common (Sire & Dam) in each pup that Identifies then as being Related ..

Sometime I think My Stroke helped !! LOL




"Nocturnal Nailor"

[liontracker]

African, good post!

[Rebelrunner1]

Hey fellas, I'm new here, but, not so much to dogs. I'm not big on genetics or DNA and all that, but I do know that you can't judge a book by its cover, or a dog for that matter. I have a bloodhound/redbone mix dog that's named rebel that I wouldn't sell for any amount of money. His daddy was a search and rescue bloodhound that belonged to my neighbor and his mother was a redbone that I had found wandering in the woods. She was skin and bones when she came up to me, but she was nice as she could be. I brought her home and fed her up and got her back right. When the season started I tried her out and she wouldn't trail a biscuit across the yard,(which is probably why she was in the shape she was in when I found her). I was gonna give her to a friend of mine who has deer dogs and be done with her, but my daughter threw a fit and wanted to keep her. I gave in and turned her over to her. Well, long story short, I ended up with a litter of pups. I gave away all but that one male. I kept him for my son. He was wanting his own dog and i figured maybe it would work. Well my son gave up on him at 2 and gave him back to me and went and bought his own. I took him and started taking him with my pack and after one season with my pack he had changed so much. Now three years later I wouldn't take any amount of money for him. He's now my rigdog and he's a damn good one at that.

[three rivers catahoulas]

The short cut's I was talking about, And rebelrunner please do not take any ofense to this, because it's not a shot at you or your dogs. I'm glad to hear that that pup turned out like he did. But the point I was trying to make is, The chances of Rebel produceing a pup, as good as or better then him are not very good, and thats not because he is no good, for all we know the female is some super bred dog that has some of the best blood lines in the world, but we dont know. Rebelrunner I'm just useing your last post as referance. She could be a result of a breeding that didn't work, But rebel might be a throw back from a dog in his blood line that was a jamup dog. The short cuts are breeding a pair of unknowns to unknowns. Now I'm not saying you should go out and get a DNA profile on all the dogs in your yard, and good traits are differant to all people, I look for a dog that will run in and catch a pig, while Rebelrunner may look for a strong tree dog. So the traits we all look for are differant, the build of the dog we want is differant. But we still need to keep the bottom line the same, we need to keep the natrual traits of the dog's we love and hunt strong, even though we all want differant things out of our dogs, and that is done by selective breeding, and you can only do that with alot of time and keeping dogs out of every litter you have. I just had two litters of pups there was a total of 22 pups I'm keeping 16 of them I'm keeping 6 out of one litter and 10 out of the other. The two crosses I made are new crosses for me, but are the best of the best from every thing I have had for the past ten years. And I hope I have not reached my Hybrid Vigor in the parents, but only time will tell me that. Rebelrunner thank you for your imput and again this was not a shot at you or your dogs, maybe you have somthing going in your rebel dog that will get passed down and I wish you all the luck in the world.

[Dan Edwards]

Fair enough. I wasnt sure what you meant by that. Best to the best is the way to breed for sure.

[Nolte]

I get real kick out of these lines/breeds/genetics types of discussions. I'd like to think I've got a fairly good handle on it, but in reality as soon as I get past looking at XX crosses with XY and all the possible combinations I'm lost. I can notice similiar physical traits in certain lines/types but that is about it. I sure as hell can't predict it before hand.

If you want my surefire method to produce top knotch dogs that 60% of the time works every time, here it is. Find a male you really like and has had a couple litter of pups in which a majority have made pretty good dogs. Then find a female that is the same thing and bingo you're in business. Put them in the woods as much as possible and get rid of the duds. Remember 60% of the time it works every time.

[liontracker]

LOL! "I almost quarantee it" LOL!

As for mix bred, check out the Panther dog post I made in the Lion section.

[Spokerider]

Here's how I see the genetic / hereditary trait puzzle........

1] Each dog contributes exactly one half of the chromosomes to make a pup, no more, no less.

2] EVERY sperm in the male has a DIFFERENT combination of DNA from his genetic pedigree. Now, how many millions of viable sperm are in each ejacuale?? Go figure....

3] If a female gives birth to 10 pups, that means 10 DIFFERENT eggs from her ovaries have been fertilized. Like the male, each of these eggs has DIFFERENT DNA combination from her genetic ancestory.

4] Now, with those millions of possible combinations, it's anybody's guess as to what the "dominant" DNA is in the very sperm cell that fertilizes the egg, and what the "dominant" DNA is in each egg cell. This combination of DNA determines all of the pups traits, good and bad.

5] Obviously, there is no possible way to *predict* what the dominant DNA combination will be [ good or bad ] in each pup, as you can see each pup WILL be different, but rather through trial and error to hope for the best combination with your *best guess* based on past efforts from your attempts and from those of others.

6] IMHO, breeding the "best" to the "best" is how breeds / lines were developed in the past and will likely be the way of the future, unless we can come up with a way to accurately identify and choose desireable DNA in sperm and eggs before fertilization occurs.

[African]

Here's how I see the genetic / hereditary trait puzzle........

1] Each dog contributes exactly one half of the chromosomes to make a pup, no more, no less.

2] EVERY sperm in the male has a DIFFERENT combination of DNA from his genetic pedigree. Now, how many millions of viable sperm are in each ejacuale?? Go figure....

3] If a female gives birth to 10 pups, that means 10 DIFFERENT eggs from her ovaries have been fertilized. Like the male, each of these eggs has DIFFERENT DNA combination from her genetic ancestory.

4] Now, with those millions of possible combinations, it's anybody's guess as to what the "dominant" DNA is in the very sperm cell that fertilizes the egg, and what the "dominant" DNA is in each egg cell. This combination of DNA determines all of the pups traits, good and bad.

5] Obviously, there is no possible way to *predict* what the dominant DNA combination will be [ good or bad ] in each pup, as you can see each pup WILL be different, but rather through trial and error to hope for the best combination with your *best guess* based on past efforts from your attempts and from those of others.

6] IMHO, breeding the "best" to the "best" is how breeds / lines were developed in the past and will likely be the way of the future, unless we can come up with a way to accurately identify and choose desireable DNA in sperm and eggs before fertilization occurs.

Couldn't find a smiley depicting a thumbs up, so please take this as one.

(All the Americans I have met assured me there are no schools in Canada - you must have grown up further south?)

[houndogger]

Here's how I see the genetic / hereditary trait puzzle........

1] Each dog contributes exactly one half of the chromosomes to make a pup, no more, no less.

2] EVERY sperm in the male has a DIFFERENT combination of DNA from his genetic pedigree. Now, how many millions of viable sperm are in each ejacuale?? Go figure....

3] If a female gives birth to 10 pups, that means 10 DIFFERENT eggs from her ovaries have been fertilized. Like the male, each of these eggs has DIFFERENT DNA combination from her genetic ancestory.

4] Now, with those millions of possible combinations, it's anybody's guess as to what the "dominant" DNA is in the very sperm cell that fertilizes the egg, and what the "dominant" DNA is in each egg cell. This combination of DNA determines all of the pups traits, good and bad.

5] Obviously, there is no possible way to *predict* what the dominant DNA combination will be [ good or bad ] in each pup, as you can see each pup WILL be different, but rather through trial and error to hope for the best combination with your *best guess* based on past efforts from your attempts and from those of others.

6] IMHO, breeding the "best" to the "best" is how breeds / lines were developed in the past and will likely be the way of the future, unless we can come up with a way to accurately identify and choose desireable DNA in sperm and eggs before fertilization occurs.

Couldn't find a smiley depicting a thumbs up, so please take this as one.

(All the Americans I have met assured me there are no schools in Canada - you must have grown up further south?)

We have plenty of schools up here, they just get pretty iced over in the winter

[BlacktailStalker]

And hard to get to with all the windfall after a good storm.

[BBGH]

trig/tree walker cross, blue walker cross

[Outlaw 3]

I have hunted with some pretty good "plockers". and have often considered crossing my two best dogs to produce some "plott and tans" but I have not pulled the trigger on it yet.